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Welcome to the kids sleep show, where we help tired parents from around the world to get their children to fall asleep independently, sleep through the night and build healthy sleep habits for life. I’m your host, Courtney Zentz. Now let’s sleep together.
All right, thanks
so much for tuning in everyone I am most excited to announce that goon Johnny from G Patel consulting is here joining me today we are talking all about postpartum anxiety, postpartum depression, we were just having a little chuckle before we kick things off about the fact that I likely had postpartum anxiety and depression. And she feels like she may have as well i think it’s one of those things that is not talked about enough. So I am super pleased to have her here today to introduce herself, which I will allow her to do now. And then to dive in and chat all about something that I feel like is not talked about enough, frankly, so welcome. And thank you so much for joining me.
Thank you so much, Courtney, I really appreciate being here. Thank you. It’s my honor, I think I appreciate you bringing me in front of your audience to speak about this, because like you said, very much so that we don’t talk about this enough. So I’ll tell you a little bit about who I am and what I do, and where my journey with all this started. Maybe misgender me and I work as a mental health licensed mental health therapist in the state of California and Florida. So I’ve been doing this, and I specialize in depression, anxiety, and trauma, mostly, and PTSD and stuff. So I’ve been I’ve owned my private practice for almost 10 plus years now. And I absolutely love, love, love what I do. And I wake up to it every day, you know, when I was studying, to be in grad school, and figure, you know, figuring out what I wanted to be when I grew up. One of the things that my program required of us was that you have to go out there and seek therapy in order to, you know, see what it’s like for people to come in and seek help from you. So that was one of the ways that my doors to therapy because, you know, I was one of those people who was always so in denial of therapy, and that, No, nothing’s wrong with me, I’ll fix other people but or help other people. But you know, I’m fine. So I was one of those. And now looking back, I just turned 40 in this past Christmas, and you know, my eyes are literally like, Oh my god, like I’m almost like, not midway to my life, but almost I don’t see people expecting to live 100 years these days. So I just wanted to do something and everything that that’s happening in this year, you know, with COVID. And I lost, you know, with everything in terms of mental health, like my practice, people are just, it’s literally like a upheaval so much because of everything going on in terms of anxiety and stuff, you know, so I wanted to go get out there and speak like for the past two years, like I was telling you earlier that I have a two and a half year old and you know, I found myself just struggling so much with new motherhood. I know everybody talks about Oh, motherhood is great. You’re pregnant baby. Wow, all the glamorous parts of motherhood. But nobody really talks about the mental health and the struggles part of the motherhood part, you know, because I went through it. And now looking back, I’m like, Yeah, I think I had PPD like, partially, you know, it wasn’t so clinically severe, very debilitated me. I think sometimes it did, like, I still live my life, I would still, you know, see my patients, I would still have a life. But there were times where I felt myself struggling so much. And so I’ll tell you what happened. I’ll get into that in a little bit. But so I lost. You know, I’m in East India. And so I lost one, there was an actor that we lost in back in India, my family’s still there. So I’m sort of having lived here and live there. And he was very young and passed away. And the whole suicide thing was brought into light. But I guess his thing was a mortar that I recently lost away after that, in this very year, lost away a friend of friends to PPD, she was 30 years old. And she, you know, she left a seven month old mine. And that literally opened my eyes to you know, just this whole year, I was trying to figure out like, I need to do something, I love what I do in my private practice. I see my 20 people throughout the week, because I still work part time right now, because of my child. I figured when he grew up a little, I would go back to work full time, but I’m sort of trying to figure that out. So you know, I was like, I love what I do. I wake up to it every morning, I love seeing my patients journey from you know, very, very depressive to very high functioning people. So it’s not like I work in a very acute hospital setting. But I work in an office setting and yet I see people who are very debilitated in the outside world could never tell there was something wrong with them. But when when I see them, and when I see them going through the journey of you know, getting on the other side and feeling completely well and be driving to be their best selves. It really, really made brings me joy. And when I you know, so I was thinking that, you know, when I turned 40 I wanted to make a bigger impact and do something more and you know, get out there and speak about mental health because so back to my friend who I lost PPD, you know, her family did an amazing thing, because in the South Asian culture, there’s so much stigma associated with mental health is all in the mind. And you know, as a trauma specialist, and you know, being a little neuroscience nerd, I wanted to, you know, kind of educate people on, there is a huge brain and Mind Body connection, that when we go through certain things, and when we’re not mentally well, or as new mothers, you know, I really think that all new mothers somehow some way struggle from some kind of perinatal disorder, which is perinatal disorders are things that can start in mood disorders, they can start in pregnancy, and they can go all the way back, you know, all the way till the baby is two or three years old. And we don’t get educated about that enough. Other than that, oh, you, you know, occasionally fill out that form, while you are a depleted nutrition and you fill it out. And for me, my example was, you know, I used to go to the pediatrician, but it was all about my son like, Oh, I would just fill out the PPD, you know, checklist as everything is fine, whatever, every, every three months, I would fill out the autism checklist. And it was just a checklist that I was filling out. But it wasn’t something that I invested. Now looking back, I should have paid attention and you know, gotten some kind of more information than just filling out the checklist, as in these are the things that you know, there is the whole concept of mom guilt. It’s like, you know, you’re so exhausted, you want to take five minutes for self care. But hey, no, the mom guilt kicks in, there is a whole concept of perfectionism that happens in the first few years of mental wellness, there is a whole concept of you know, postpartum anxiety there is postpartum depression. So all of these four, so to speak, trimester things that happen, we don’t talk about So recently, you know, founded a group on Facebook called brayer, pregnant and new moms mental wellness support group, because I was looking at everything on online on there, you know, and I could find all this, like mom groups, but nothing really pertaining to educating moms on these perinatal and some of the mental health struggles that moms go through. So you know, I just found such a need for that, especially after the death of my friend, and I’m just, you know, so big on these days, I’m recently launching a podcast soon to, to educate and reduce the mental health stigma associated with mental health because I want to inform people, I want to go out there and tell people educate people, because I feel like if you’re, the more educated we are, on certain things, the more informed we are about certain things, we are more apt to making better decisions for our life and not suffering through that phase. Because, you know, one of the biggest things that helps is getting support getting help getting knowing that there are other women also going through the same thing, because when we I personally, myself, just was so blinded, and like tunnel vision that I switched myself from social media, especially Excel from, you know, all the groups and all the things and I wish some of these things existed. So I could have plugged into some of these things and you know, taken away because when I would see on social media, all my friends because they had older babies, and doing just fine on profile pictures, I would get so disturbed by the fact that what why am I feeling like this? And the toxicity associated with that.
So yeah, no, I totally agree. I, you know, what launched me into building tiny transitions was similar thing. It’s like, I’m eight weeks into this, you know, they make it seem like you leave the hospital, they, you know, they check that your kid strapped in and are like, good luck, man. And, you know, yeah, you know, and, like, I didn’t have this immediate connection to being a mom, like I had an identity crisis. You came here, full time, like, butt kicking executive that I loved it. I traveled the world. I did the things and I was good at it. You know, you come home and like parenting was the first job I sucked at. And that was a hard pill to swallow for me. Like, I expected to come home from the hospital, still manage my team of 40 still take care of the house being clean. Go to the gym every day. Shoot milk out of both my breasts, like I was the mom. I’m gonna pack a freezer full. I’m gonna have a kid that sleeps good. I’m gonna clean the house and cut the grass and do the garden. You know, like, I’m like, sitting in a nice diaper shooting myself with a water bottle. Like,
how did I get
here? You know? And I it is like, you just like I had one good friend. She’s still my very dear best friend. Yeah. And I called her and I was like, um, how, you know? doing you know, and I was just like, my boyfriend. I tried to put on a movie rap once. Yeah, after it gets the movie wrap. But at the time, it was a situation where like, I was trying to put it on. I was crumbling. And I’m sure at that point I was in like, postpartum anxiety or depression because Like who? rap and I was in the middle of a picnic at her house with a newborn baby and just sobbing. And my girlfriend like saw me like, freaking out a little bit inside. You know, I
think she saw the like, I’m gonna have a meltdown at any moment. And we’re gonna can’t even wrap my baby. She’s like, dude, Give me Max, here’s what you do.
Oh, okay, you
know what it’s like
that, that mental, you know that mental, like, there’s no help man. And
there’s no that way. Like, my big thing is they say you it takes a village to raise a kid? Yeah. Because sometimes you have to see those things from other people or get those kinds of very basic help from people. And it’s hard to ask for help. It’s hard to swallow that pill that what, what, why, why didn’t I just know it? And you know, like, the whole perfectionism thing is, and I should have just known these things. And sometimes we’re so much harder on ourselves. And, you know, we have such high standards through this entire process. And now looking back, one of the things that, you know, I focus in our group and you know, and in terms of wellness, and in terms of mental stability, is that you know, what, the house will messy, things won’t get done, there will be bad days, there will be more bad moments. And that’s a, okay, yeah, it’s okay. You know, because I feel like you know, it, like you said, it’s such a huge identity change for us. And we don’t recognize that it’s one thing to be single or to be, you know, in a relationship and doing your own thing. And, you know, they all say that they’re having a child, too, that makes will change your life, they don’t talk about the depth of what that means you’re like, you lose sleep, you’ll be your body will suck, and you know, you you’ll be eating up the wazoo to maintain your milk and your supply. And, you know, some of these things that we do, and that’s one of the things that, you know, we focus on her group is that, you know, it’s like, it’s almost a rebirth for us as, as women and as moms because we our identity has shifted so much from our own life to who we are now and where we are, who we want to be as the process of our child growing and as growing as a result of that, because some of the things that they do are so triggering, and I’m just like, oh, my goodness, like, how do we manage that? How do we, you know, wrap our hands around, heads around that and still not traumatize the baby and the child, and yet, you know, learn the process of the tantrums and the two year olds, and they don’t listen, and they don’t eat what we want, and they’re their own people. And you’re just like, Oh, my God, that newborn to toddler to, you know, the next phase is such a transition in itself. Yeah, we have to go through that process. And that’s a big change in terms of mental health.
Well, and I think to like the recognition of what postpartum anxiety is for each woman is different. Right? And someone, man, right, it’s not necessarily just a female thing. I I did not recognize
I
had anything wrong initially. Right? Yep. And I was more fearful like, I would do a lot of the what if scenarios, well, what if Rob max down the stairs had cracked on the wood floor, and then it’s moved, you know, it hit the heater, and he got a concussion or something, you don’t mean that it was like, a reality that that’s gonna happen, like, on the three steps that you have to go to your split level, like, but the, the visions that I would get would be like, well, what happens if a knife falls out of, you know, the knife holder and ricochets off the floor and cuts his toe? And it was like, What? Like, what is that? But in your mind, like, you’re just I was, like, petrified of like, all of these things, to the point where like, I wouldn’t go in the kitchen during the day, cuz I’m like, Well, what if something happened, you know, and it was like, I gotta get out of my own way with this. And I did, I went to see a therapist. I will say it didn’t work out. But I recognized I had something going on, and I was there about your daddy issues. And at the time, I was like, I’m not like, I don’t have daddy issues. I have a baby that’s sucking on my breasts every five minutes. Like, I can’t get into, like, 30 years ago, when I was a child, like I just, um, who’s maybe a therapist right now, you know, so like, I kind of share a little bit shattered, like, whatever I got Lindsay, you know, and I, like I call my therapist at the time, you know, I think I still didn’t recognize I had anything going on, you know, the whole time. She’s like, you totally have something postpartum something going on, you know. And as I got, I think I hit about the 12 week mark. Yeah, where I started to feel like what I’m getting sleep because I that was part of what launched me into tiny dread, ya know, like a new person, then I could think more rationally. And then as I slept, and then, you know, things started to go back to a little bit of normal, I could still pump the nurse, but now I was working. For me that was comfort. Right? You know, so with my second child, it was a little a little bit easier. You know, I think, practice but, you know,
the second child is more more difficult from moving from one to two, then you know, just having one or having one to two is more difficult than two to three. That’s what I hear most of the time.
I will say the second one. My husband was like what the first night we laid Got to bed together after we came home from the hospital? What do we do? I’m like, I don’t
know.
Oh,
and then I mean, my daughter’s amazing now, but that first night, we were like, Oh, she just stuck with one.
But I mean, you know, you
talked about three things that I thought were very important, right mind body connection. Right? Yeah, I think we lose all aspects of ourself when we have a child, because we’re trying to give all aspects of our mind and frankly, our body and our bodily fluid to a new child. Right.
So absolutely, you know, I
think the mind body connection was something that I hear a lot about more. So now, you know, your, your thoughts further on that, and then how that drives into like, you know, the next phase, which is like the mom guilt, and then the perfectionism. So if you want to chat a little bit about the mind body connection, I think, just helping to educate parents on like, what that looks like, because, you know, there may be moms listening right now that are like, I’ve got it all figured out. And if you do, man,
kudos, power to you, oh, my goodness, yes.
But if you have a daily, you find yourself hiding in the closet, like, talk about the mind body connection.
So I’m glad that you actually brought this up, because it’s so important. And the reason why I think that they’re talking about it more now, more so than before, is because there’s so much research and, you know, spotlight on neuroscience now more than ever before. And neuroscience is a subject that studies you know, the nervous system and the body, and how it affects the body. And you know, the connection that we have our brain with our brain. So I’m like, you know, I really find myself very attracted to neuroscience. And you know, what I wanted, like, I got into the whole concept of therapy to figure out why people behave the way they do, and you know what they do. But now my next quest was that, you know, what happens in our brain exactly, that leads us to behave a certain way and think a certain way, and, you know, back to the brain again. So one of the things that, and I specialize in trauma, so I wanted that was very important for me to study when people come in to see me when they’ve been through traumatic events, you know, we don’t focus on trauma, especially, we just think if it’s something really major, like car accident, or combat, or you know, like the death of a loved one, or, you know, if you’ve been through major things like like sexual trauma, then that’s trauma. But in our trauma world, we consider trauma as a big T and small t. So it’s like trauma lies in the eye of the beholder. So anything that threatens your sense of security, or that threatens your sense of belonging in this world, and where you stand, it could be traumatic to a person. Now most of the time, we’re resilient, where life experiences were designed as social animals to be, you know, we figure stuff out, and we can get through stuff and we move forward. But there’s some events that sort of, you know, stay in our brain like so this is how the neuroscience part of it looks since you asked, and I’m going to give, you know, given an example that pertains to a mom, so let’s say, if like you said, you know, there are thoughts that you’re having some thoughts, we just and the thing that I really wanted to point out and highlight here is that when you’re going to pose any of these perinatal or postpartum depression, or anxiety, and all of these things that women go through after it’s considered postpartum depression, or anxiety, or OCD, which is obsessive compulsive and successive disorder, a lot of mom’s goes through the, you know, whole maternal gatekeeping and perfectionism, like, everything has to happen the way I think it has to happen to my level of perfection, otherwise, everybody else that is trying to help out there is not you know, it can be better than I am. And I think sometimes that can lead to exhaustion. But so all of those things are considered clinical, when they start debilitating your well being where you can function anymore, or where it starts debilitating your work or you can go back to it like if you’re you’re at work, but you keep thinking about your child, you know, you just can’t focus anymore in function or in your relationship with your partner or in your relief, social, other social relationships. So when it starts impairing the word social relationships, you know, or your sense of well being, that’s when we consider it clinical. And we say, Okay, you know what, let’s step in and ask for help, you know, or urge you to ask for help and you know, with the therapy thing, too, you know, there has actually been research like number of studies show that 55% of people who have been like they’ve been to to other therapists before they find the right one, the third one, and then 40% of the population find three other people before they find the last one. So I can only imagine you know, as you’re going through the motherhood thing, one of the things that people we don’t obviously prepare for this and you know, it’s like it’s all like no, let’s get this car seat so we can bring a baby home. We don’t say that, but I really urge women to therapists shop so to speak beforehand, because it’s it’s not the therapy didn’t work is the person and you that therapeutic relationship was not the right fit for you. So you have to find someone that says right fit for you so that you can get the right help. It’s like, the reason why in your case you got fortunately, you had Lindsey, because you already had that, you know, safety person that you knew you could go and count on and that had your back. So I really feel that women should do that beforehand, just like you know, people do doulas, and there’s a whole concept of the birth team, you know, it’s like you research your people beforehand, so that, you know that, oh, if things hit the fan, I know who to go to a lot of times, right, because we don’t. And while we’re in the mother thing, freaking out, hormones are running, while we don’t know what to do with the first child. And then we’re like, Wait, what? therapists shop three people before I find the right one, there’s no time for that. Some moms don’t even have time for that, where am I going to put the baby, if I go to therapy, you know, it’s like, now the virtual world is more accessible, and things are more easily but but you know, before the whole COVID thing, none of that was happening. So you know, if you’re clinically going through it, a you cannot control it, like you were saying, like, I just was trying to do all these things. But in your brain, you can control some of those things. They’re, they’re at a place where so one of the things that happened, I’m just gonna give you a general overview without getting into too much detail of neuroscience is that. So when we find anything to be threatening, or event or, you know, traumatic event, one of the first places in our brain, there are five different places that are affected. So there’s one place called amygdala, which is like our fight or flight response, right? And it’s like, oh, you know, it’s like a smoke detector for brain, which it’s supposed to be triggered for 45 seconds when your body’s under or when you are under stress, to kind of let you know, as then Hey, is this useful to you is a saber toothed Tiger or is it just, you know, the next three years of your life, unfortunately, they that response get triggered, and then you know, you just are, then the next thing that gets triggered is the hippocampus, which is like your memory and your decision making part of your brain. So as soon as amygdala threats a signal as an Oh, you know, what this is threatening, your hippocampus is triggered, and then that, you know, sort of they say that people who are experiencing PTSD or long term stress responses, that part of their brain is actually a trophy, so that it becomes small. So a lot of times you don’t remember things, a lot of times you remember things that are like half, you know,
fragmented, and they’re not under the last thing that gets offended is like the left brain, which is your judgment, your decision making your you know, your prefrontal cortex, which is like, you know, things that you make sense off. But in the beginning, like the emotional part of your brain is the first thing that gets affected fight or flight. So when we’re going through this, and technically, like I said, it’s supposed to be only triggered for 45 seconds, to let us know if something is a threat or not. But when we go through an extended periods of threat in our life, or when we when that area of our brain is triggered, that stress response is triggered because of the cortisol. And there’s a whole bunch of other things that happens, it just takes over your hippocampus, so it shrinks. And then you can remember things, you can make judgments properly, you can make proper decisions. So all of these different things get affected. And as a result of that, it’s like certain things are so much more dramatic than other things that whatever we pay attention to in our thoughts, or whatever we think about those neural networks trending and then they trend into other things like there’s a neural network in our brain for you know, hair, there is something a neural network for color white, there is a neural network called Black. So if there is a certain thought, like for you, in your example, you’re like, I was afraid that I would hurt him. When you keep thinking about the things you’re afraid of you make that bigger and bigger, bigger, the neural network in your brain gets stronger. And it’s like a vinyl groove, it digs deeper groove, and then it’s like, you’ll be thinking about going to a grocery store, and then all of a sudden you come back to I’m going to hurt him, you know, you just can’t stop all those things. So it’s really important that and sometimes if it gets clinically tuned Berry, then that’s one of the reasons when we suggest meds, there are meds that are good. And I know a lot of women and a lot of people are anti meds, because it hurts a baby. But obviously there is at this point enough research and enough help out there that they don’t want to hurt your kids. It’s just that if you can function and be present, is it worth going through all the stressors from all seriousness, while you are in this process of dealing with new motherhood, or you know, the newness of the entire thing? So and
I think you brought up a great point too, when you start to get into the science of what we’re doing, right? I talk to people all the time about their children, right? Because people say that the right time to do this, like I don’t care if they’re four months old or four years old. Let’s talk about a couple of things. How you feel in the morning, is how they feel. They just have the two parts of your brain that are impacted by chronic sleep deprivation or the amygdala. The prefrontal cortex, they are the two spots in the brain that manage emotional regulation. They manage behavior balance, right? So it’s like all the things you’re talking about, like as a child, you have temper tantrums. You’re talking back, you’re, you know, overstimulated, you’re defiant, right? Like, as a mom, you’re chronically exhausted, you’re depressed, you’re not eating,
you’re not sleeping, you
shift for yourself like, right. So it’s like, you know, I always talk to clients and like, your mental health can also start in the foundation of sleep. Like, there’s nice things about asking for help, whether it’s asking for mental health, around postpartum anxiety and depression, like start with sleeping honey, because if you’re sleeping three hours a night, that’s a problem, you know, and I like clients about that, because I think they’re almost embarrassed to get held by Kimberly as my third kid, I can’t believe I need a sleep consultant. Like why, like, if your third kid sucked at baseball, you’d get a coach to help him if you really wanted him to, you know, be good. And he wanted to play on the travel team. What’s Absolutely,
and sleep, it’s just like with trauma, it’s like it compounds over time, and it gets worse over time. So your third kid, you’re definitely talk to your body and change things in your brain where you’re at a place, if you didn’t get enough sleep with the last tour, you know, wasn’t able to catch up on sleep, good sleep hygiene, then, of course, you should get help for it with a sleep consultant to help you, you know, reconfigure things in your brain, first of all, and teach you about our sleeping habits and hygiene.
Well, I always say like sleep is that foundation for which the house is built. And I saw that, you know, with new moms, I think you weren’t home having such high expectations of what motherhood should be or what it should look like on social media or what you perceive you should be doing and stuff. And it’s like, you got to focus on yourself so that you can then focus on the baby, you can’t give from an empty cup, you know, and I think that that awareness that postpartum anxiety and depression is real, and it’s okay. And it’s sometimes talked about and that you can seek support with from your girlfriend from a therapist, like talking and communicating, like, I know, not every relationship has that open pathway of communication, some do some don’t, you know, I was thankful my husband listened, you know, and was there for me. Sometimes he’s just, you
know, blah, blah, blah, I’m
like, No,
I’m
like, I remember calling him from New York City, I was like, I won’t go near the window, because I’m afraid I’ll jump He’s like, then don’t go near the window, move the dresser. I’m like, cool. Move the dresser,
to a postpartum psychosis, and it is real, it’s true. And more, a lot of women go through it. And, you know, we beat ourselves for going through it as an Oh my god, I can’t believe I’m even thinking this. Well, it’s not you, it’s things happening in your body. And the new changes you’re dealing with is, you know, so it’s obviously good to go ask for help and check in with someone that you can trust and for the others that you know, have been through it I my biggest urges that just provide a listening and a non judgmental year so that people can come to you and feel safe coming to you. Because when you feel like oh, you know, there are some moms who are great at listening. There are other moms who are like, Oh, this is not how you should be doing this is what you should be doing. This is how I raise one warrant for works for one doesn’t work for the other. Every child is individually different. And so is every mother, you know, so a really
thinking pressure to like, absolutely. I was just speaking with somebody. And she was talking about the family pressure of she is from Hyderabad, India. Yeah. And, you know, she’s like, in our family, like, nothing is not a thing, you know? Yeah. Yeah. But like, I need help, because I’m not good right now. You know, and they watched him during the day, and they’re here and everything, you know, and we just like, we talked through it, but it’s like, each culture, each parenting style, like I people think I think they equate, like, sleep as the thing you’re supposed to give up. And it’s like, you know, it’s important down boundaries and foundations, but then recognize that, like, it’s okay to seek help from a therapist, and I know, as a new mom, like, you may not have it all together. And that’s all right, man. Like,
none of that. Happened happens.
Yeah, it is. Absolutely.
All right. And I just want to really emphasize that, you know, it’s like all mothers go through some kind of struggle, it is okay to go through struggle, it is inevitable, with no mother has ever been other than, you know, what we see on everybody’s profiles and news feeds like, oh, are we happy? We don’t know what happens behind the scene, you know, and it’s like, there’s some things and then you know, some people are now very open about and would put themselves out there and you know, vulnerable about some things like you see these happy picture in this baby photo shoot, but everybody was losing their minds while this was happening. And I’m like, exactly, these are the things that we don’t discuss about, you know, the dirty, messy stuff of new motherhood and how we can each learn and support each other through that process. Because like you mentioned earlier, it is about having a village having a community having a sense of support. And knowing that you know what, you’re not going through this alone, it’s okay that you’re struggling. It’s there is help out there, you absolutely don’t have to go through this alone. There are experts in mental wellness are experts in sleep, they’re experts in all these different fields, you just have to find the right expert for you, to help you through that journey. And that process that works for you, your husband, your family and your child now. Because otherwise, it can be very tumultuous. Absolutely. I
totally agree. And I would love for people, would you mind taking a few minutes to talk about your Facebook group where people can find you, you know, getting some additional resources and information because this is such an area like I could talk to you for days, and we’d love to come back and chat more, because I think we could talk about so many times, but
we’re gonna find you What’s the name of the group, I’m probably going to join it from a personal No, I
would love for you to, I’ve left it open for all my people. That’s why whenever you know, I interview with my fellow podcast hosts that do similar things, but they have their own niche like Today on our group I’m having for my podcast, I interviewed one of those licensed doula, and she happens to be in Israel. But she’s had her own set of kids and she helps mother through, you know, she runs her own workshop and practices on which we want to call it like birthing trauma and stuff. So I love having people who are good at what they do, join and help the other woman because it’s all about support. And it’s all about health. So I’m on Instagram, and on Facebook, LinkedIn and other things as well. But my handle is G Patel counseling, pa te LCOU en la Angie, Jupiter counseling, I, my facebook group I our Instagram is called pregnant, underscore a new mom underscore tribe. And then the Facebook group is called pregnant and new moms mental wellness support group. And the little cover says, you know, self care is not selfish, because we truly believe that when you are a new mother, even five minutes of self care that you can do, you know, really works wonders in able in your ability to, you know, be conscious and be present for your child as you’re raising them because focus has to be back on you otherwise, you can be the mother that you know your child and your family wants you to be so yeah, and my podcast is launching on November 10. I can’t wait. So I can’t wait to follow your lead. It’s called traumatic transformations. And it’s for people who are looking to find hope, peace and you know, purpose in their life after having been through a big life change or a big life event. And actually my first episode is about a woman, a woman that she’s a good friend of mine now because I was on her podcast, and we’re going to be discussing PPD so which is postpartum depression and how she almost died because of it now how she’s created her life and now impacts people as a result of her journey. So absolutely can’t wait for your audience to either join my group or you know, support us in, you know, with my podcasts or however, please, please, please, I encourage you to be a part of it too. I would love for you to be on there and help educate women on sleep and everything that you do. So thank you so much. Thank you so
much for joining. Today, I will share all of the links in the show notes. And I look forward to staying in touch. I’ll follow up with everything else.
Same here.
I hope you have a
sunny looks like rest of the day out there. That’s great. I
appreciate you jumping
on today and chatting a bit more. And it’s certainly a topic that I want to keep talking about because I think it’s so important that you only close to me. So thank you again and I hope you have an awesome rest of the day. Thank you. Thank
you say me likewise. Alright, bye.
Hold on. One more thing before you go. As the value listener of the kids sleep show, I want to help you build a great sleep or not just in the times you’re listening to the show. But all day every day. Every week of the year. I have a new Facebook group called slumber Made Simple. It’s a place to gather with other parents looking for sleep support, laughs and the latest in sleep research to build a family that is rested and at their best day in and day out. If you want to be part of the community where you can get free sleep support, weekly training sessions, unbelievable content and so much
more. Head
on over to tiny transitions.com forward slash community. That’s tiny transition stuff comm forward slash community or head over to Facebook and search slumber Made Simple. drop me a note and let me know when you join. I can’t wait to see you there.

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