Episode #154: Nessl Baby Carrier Founder, Lena Shahbandar

Disclaimer: Transcripts were generated automatically and may contain inaccuracies and errors.

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Welcome to the kids sleep Show podcast where we dive into the magical world of sleep, and all things parenting. Join us as we embark on a journey filled with expert advice, practical tips and heartwarming stories that will transform your little ones into sleep superheroes, and empower you to navigate the beautiful chaos of parenting. I’m your host, Courtney Zentz. And I’m on a mission to change how the world view sleep and provide accessible sleep coaching resources for all families to build healthy sleep habits in their home for children, and adults of all ages. As an award winning speaker, author and pediatric sleep expert, myself and my team of consultants work intimately with families around the world to teach healthy sleep habits to children and adults. I believe wholeheartedly that sleep is the foundation for which a happy home is built. So let’s sleep together or down here. So I don’t forget. And then I’ll just edit all this good stuff happened. It’s nice to meet you. Oh, good to meet you, too. Thanks for doing this. I’m so excited. You’re welcome. I am as well Kelly spoke so highly of you from your conversations with her just like you got to check out this product. It’s really, really cool. So I saw the video you sent over via email, which is great. Thank you and we can certainly chat about it. I think it’s such a cool, you know, evolution in it sounds like you know, correct me if I’m wrong, you came up with the idea in the work you’re doing with pregnancy postpartum and women and that kind of back issue, if you will. So

a new and better way to carry support, pregnancy carry support, you know, postpartum and, you know, kind of have one less thing that’s a little bit of a cluster to deal with in the baby apparatus space. Totally, totally. I’m so exactly exactly right. Maggie just texted me. Hold on. That’s okay. I’m gonna tell I think she’s gonna try to pop on. But she said she’s running late. I said, that’s fine. No, we’re just catching. Yeah. Are you in California? Are you in Florida right now? I’m actually in Chicago. Okay. Maggie lives in California.

And I’m based in Chicago. I love it. My favorite city. Oh, really. In your in Pennsylvania. I’m in Pennsylvania, I ironically, live only 10 miles from Kelly about 10 miles west of downtown Philly. Nice. But we had some friends that used to live in Chicago, and every chance we’d get before kids, we would be on a plane out there for the weekend doing gene and georgetti ease and hitting down and you know, just hit the little thing, all the things but you know, really, it was more consumption of beverages at that age. Right now we go to bed at 830. But life changes. But yeah, so I owe a visit to Philly because my cousin lives there. And I’m I’m collaborating for Nestle with Children’s Hospital of Philadelphia.

We are working. I mean, this is like kind of secondary to the initial primary objective of the business. But it’s it’s actually like in the evolution of what I’m thinking about. But we’re working on research, we’re proposing a couple things to the NIH to study

the impact on the spine. When people carry their babies in car seats versus you know, the idea is that we crash tested Nussle, but we want to do like multiple crash testing and multiple angles, multiple car seats. So we would need like a big government grant to do this. But looking at like the force dynamics on the spine and the body, with the Nestle baby carrier, as a sheet that comes in and out and evaluating safety metrics, and then looking at people’s

like, you know, we train them how to use it at CHOP, and then like, they try doing it on their own and seeing if their car seat harness

settings are appropriate, and if they’re comparable to without the nozzle. So, you know, this is all kind of my long term objective is to Rican, like construct how we’re carrying these car seats, because ultimately, that’s the most problematic thing for the human body. Oh my gosh, and over and over and in and out and up and down. And for how long? I mean, it’s like, and I’m tiny, like, I’m 112 pounds, and I can’t, like so it was always awkward for me to like, grab the thing and, you know, try to make my way through whatever I was doing or lift up to click it in and you know, and I didn’t I mean honestly I so that’s what that’s the the the origin story is my patience, but it’s also the fact that when I was pregnant, I had bad SI joint dysfunction. But I’m a rehab medicine doctor, I had PT at my like fingertips and I was able to get through it pretty well. And then I had a friend who

had similar issues during pregnancy. And she had her baby. And so she came over to my house and I was treating her and then I sent her on her way. But as I was doing that, I saw that she was going to carry the car seat and I was like, You should not carry this car seat, I’m going to carry it for you. And my youngest at this point was like six. And I was carrying the car seat back to her car and I reinterred my back. And I was like, this thing is ridiculous. And this concept is unnatural. And why is nobody doing anything about it, and then, you know, do know, is just emerging. And doona solves the problem in one way creates problems and other ways. But it’s, you know, it’s at least it’s innovation. Really, nobody else is doing much of innovation around it. So

I That’s how like, the whole thing came about, I was like, Alright, I’m gonna make this so thin that you can literally even put it in a car seat.

But that part, we’re not really like, selling quite yet. You know, we need to establish a lot of efficacy, safety. Yeah. Yeah, publish and become an authority on this. And then we can pull that in. But for now, it’s like transition in and out a stroller in and out of the home from the play mat from the crib, or ever. And it’s just like, so easy on your body.

I love it. Yeah, I know. And forward and rear facing, which was good, depending on the situation. It was like, okay, and I always was scared of suffocation, right, like, as a new mom with a baby who was teeny tiny, putting them in the carrier. And I’m like, Okay, let’s go for a walk. Are you alive? Are you alive? Like, let’s hold the thing out like this, because I’m afraid you’re not breathing. You know? It’s scary. Like, you know, if you’re doing it right, but like, even still, our head is tiny, you know? And I was always so paranoid of just the the use of them safely, though, I did use them every three seconds. I was like, Are you good? How do we, you know? Well, and I think that’s so natural, right? And then you Mom, it’s like, you’re between overwhelm. And you’re between, like, sleep deprivation, lack of confidence. There’s so much going on there. And then there’s also real safety issues. And then there’s also this like, purported like,

excessive I feel like sometimes like level of fear mongering for moms, right, where it’s like, if you don’t do this, right, your baby’s gonna die. If you don’t do this, right, your baby’s gonna die. And I think that there is a balance that needs to be struck where it’s like, yes, there needs to be education, we need to help moms do things right. And

your baby’s probably going to be okay, as long as you follow these things and like help bring that stress level down. My gosh, yeah, the anxiety has to be just like, what it was like PTSD for me, like, even still, I see something. I’m like, Whoa, like there’s a bridge in Conshohocken, where I used to live won’t drive over it still to this day, because I was afraid, postpartum, that I would veer the car off of it. And I was like, Oh my gosh, like as a new parent. I mean, I’m 10 years in now. But like, I look back, and I’m like, gosh, we have to do better. We have to do better in our world test.

Supporting and coaching, which is why I do this show. It’s like sleep can be complex, but it also can be very simple, right. And I think people overlook overcomplicated and make it seem like we just tell you to stick your baby in a crib and cried out, it’s like, no, they need good hygiene, good habits, good intake, and a sperm safe, hard surface to sleep on. Right? Like, that’s it, but you come out of the hospital and you don’t have anything. So you’re sort of guessing the whole time and then you guess wrong and you have to fix it a couple months later, you know, and you’re just doing your best and and total time of overwhelm which I get, you know, and it’s not that simple, because it’s the emotions around it, right? Like, you put your baby in this crib and then they start crying and then you start lactating. And you’re like, Oh, my God, what am I going to do? Is this crying too much? Is the safe? Are they okay? Yeah, what if I’m doing it wrong? What if I should take the Sears approach? What if I should take you know? That totally crazy, so I don’t think it’s, it’s like, it should be really simple. Yeah, we make it not. And we I think what happens to us is like, we make it feel like, you are right, or you’re wrong, right? Instead of being like, you’re right. And you’re right. And you’re right. And you’re right, you’re right. Yeah. Of the law, right. Yeah. We’re gonna pick what works for your family. Yeah, exactly. People are like, what method do you teach? And like, it’s actually not about the method. I teach all of them and I educate you on all of them. But what is your baby want? What are your goals? What is your living situation? Where are they sleeping? You know, all the things. And by the way, what’s going to be most comfortable for you? You know, I’ve worked with doctors who on a Friday night we’re like, I got surgery Monday. I’m coming back from maternity leave, and you need to fix this kid now.

And then I have like other families who are like, I’m just gonna try to get out of here a centimeter a night. And that works for us. I’m like, Cool. This one will work in two days. This one will work in a month, right? Yeah, no lawyer will be like me, which was with my first I was an intern. And I literally was working like 80 hours a week. And so we had the bed right next to us like, and we were just coastally. I was like, there is no time in my life to just like train this baby for a while. And so we’re gonna worry about that later. Yeah, it worked. You know, and it’s you have to do what works for you. It’s like, okay, that works. Right. And I just think that’s the thing. To me. One of the main things that I think about is like,

like the village, and what does the village look like? And when I had my son, my eldest, I have three and my oldest is 21. So this is all like ancient history. But

when I had him, I was David after med school graduation, I was 25 years old. And I was like,

did not have maternity leave. Because there was I was not employed at that specific moment by either the med school or the residency, I was in between. And so I had to go to residency when he was three weeks old. And

my mom and my grandma, my mom’s my parents were immigrants from Syria, and my mom and grandma literally moved into the student housing

subleased next door, and my grandma would make all these like Syrian concoctions and he would wrap my belly. And they would do all the sudden I would be like, Oh, my God, it’s so annoying, like, what are you doing? But I realized, like, this is what’s missing here. Like, we do not have these villages of women who descend upon the mom to nurture like her and nourish her and help the baby and call her I remember my mother in law one time a baby was crying. I was like,

you know, like panicking. And she was like, Lena, be calm. If you’re calm, you’ll settle down. You don’t have to work hard at this. And all of a sudden, I was like, Okay, be calm. And the second I was called Baby, stop crying. And it was like, you know, you need that like wisdom of generations. Yeah.

And we just live in silos. And I think that’s where these communities like what you’re doing with this podcast. So awesome. Because that’s how we can help each other. Right? It’s like creating that village even though it may not exist for most of us. Yeah, no, I love it. I love it. It’s just so true. And I want to pause, kick this off so I can actually like dive in and, and get all this goodness for the show. And then

pronunciation Shah Vander? Yeah, I say shop and dar like shopping cart davinder. Okay.

Perfect. All right, let me make sure that recording zone, I’m gonna kick it over to you.

And then you can introduce yourself and we’ll talk all about Nestle and then all this goodness, cuz it’s what new parents want. I don’t like to script the podcasts because I think it flows more naturally as like the conversations come, which is why people like it. So. Okay.

Let me just see. Good.

Hey, everyone. Welcome to this week’s episode of the Kids sleep Show podcast. I’m joined by the founder and creator of Nestle, Ms. Lena Schollander. And I’m gonna have her take a minute and introduce herself until a little bit about her history and story with this fabulous new product. So welcome to the show. Lena, thank you so much for tuning in and joining us today. We’re gonna chat all about Nestle and all the amazing things that you’re doing in your space. So welcome. Hi, yeah, I’m Lena Shaandaar. I’m a physician. My specialty is rehab medicine or physiatry. And I’m also a mom of three kids. And I created the Nestle baby carrier, this groundbreaking new baby carrier, because what I treat is pain in pregnancy and after, and I realized that so many of my patients have difficulty half of moms have pain in pregnancy, and you go from being pregnant, to having a baby and then like lugging around all this heavy baby gear that’s just not like made with any consideration to your body. And so I realized that so many patients were coming in with so much back pain and it wouldn’t get better because they’re carrying the carseat carrying the stroller transferring their baby doing all these things. And I realized things had to be made differently. And so I set about to create a product that is while healthy for the baby focused on the health and well being of the mother

because your body does not go back to normal for at least nine months and maybe arguably never. But

you know, how can we help you and so that’s what we ended up creating this Nestle baby carrier is actually like a low, pelvic low back support waist strap for pregnancy, you can start wearing it at the end of your first trimester when the SI joints start get Luke started getting loose. And then throughout pregnancy, and then when the baby comes, it becomes a baby carrier that is detachable and super easy to use super lightweight, made out of

recycled materials. So we’re really trying to be conscientious of the earth too. I love it. And you mentioned something important, right? The SI joint and the fact that like during pregnancy, that can start to have compounding challenges, right that I think get worse as you’re carrying more of a load, oh, and you’re getting ready for pending baby’s arrival. So talk about that, because that was the reason behind you initially sort of having this idea like, wow, we need to do this different and better. In the baby carrier space, like talk a little bit about the SI joint just from medicine practice as a doctor. Yeah, so the SI joint is the sacral iliac joint and it is the joint that brings your spine into your pelvis, right, so you have the spine ends at the sacrum. And then the pelvic bone comes off the side, the ilium come off both sides. And the sacroiliac joint you have one on the right and one on the left, and it connects those two bony parts. Around 12 weeks of pregnancy, your relaxing really kicks in which is a hormone and actually gets really like high levels in your blood. And that allows the ligaments to loosen the SI joint is the one of the very important ligaments that needs to loosen in order to open up the pelvis and actually make way for the baby. Without that happening you you can’t physically have a baby. And so it loosens. And it is the one time in life that the SI joint becomes very lacks. And so it’s kind of like a knobby joint, I think about it like a jigsaw puzzle that the pieces have to fit together just perfectly. And when you’re pregnant, it can kind of rotate, your ilium can rotate forward, it can shift up or down. And it almost feels like you have a jigsaw puzzle that’s not in place. And it’s a super common reason for people to have pain and pregnancy. It’s actually the most common reason we think about it as we were given all these fake terms for what it could be. But it’s actually usually SI joint dysfunction if it’s off center and kind of in that little notch in the low part of your back. And it’s actually easy to treat with good physical therapy and sometimes a sacroiliac joint belt and I have that in pregnancy, I ended up using my SI joint belt and I liked my SI joint belt, but it’s kind of rigid, and on the bottom, when I would sit it would hit my thighs and it bothered me. And so

when we design so we decided that this waist strap is going to be like an SI joint belt so that you can wear it and really hug that pelvis for yourself. So you don’t deactivate the muscles. When you use a big brace, you actually deactivate your muscles. So the thin brace doesn’t do that. And so you can support the belt during pregnancy with support the spine during pregnancy, and have a little bit less pain.

And it’s a super easy way to address some of this issue, which is great. And the reason I wanted to bring it up because so many people might be listening if they’re pregnant, or maybe you have their second or third and have found the kids sleep show and go hmm, I had back pain. My doctor just said it was normal because I’m carrying the baby around. It’s like no, well, you know, there might be some things that you can do to support that, you know, through the Nestle brace part, but also just through some exercise or you know, some stretching different things, you know, before the baby comes in then obviously as appropriate afterwards, but to your point, you know, car seats, right like the first thing you do when you leave the hospital was you leave with a baby that is perfectly strapped into this car seat, right? They wouldn’t let us near the door without them checking that this car seat was on properly. And it’s pretty heavy man and I’m 112 pounds, you know, soaking wet. So for me to like lug around one car seat. I couldn’t imagine twins. It can get to you right now my husband could seemingly like lift it, but I can’t imagine that for the years that you’re using this with 123 kids that doesn’t do some back damage. Right. Yeah, absolutely. And I think that’s, that’s part of this whole struggle is that we literally are not given a minute for our bodies to start to go back to normal and we’re carrying things that are not physiologic. I think about this a lot because I treat people with pain and pregnancy. I also treat people who have work injuries. And when I have a patient who comes in with a work injury, I put in all these restrictions, right? It’s like no lifting more than 15 pounds, no pushing, pulling twisting than it ended up

And, and none of those restrictions exist for moms, even though their anatomy is the most unstable. And so, you know, while it is normal, like what you said about normal is so interesting to me, because it’s true, you know, so many people will tell their patients is normal and pregnancy is normal and pregnancy. But you know, let’s talk about normal osteoarthritis, as normal knee pain is normal. As we get older, do we not give people knee replacements or knee injections or talk about physical therapy just because it’s normal? I mean, there’s a lot of things that happened to the body that are normal heart attacks are normal, you know, but what are we doing about it? Is, is really what the question is. And, you know, I think part of this is like learning body mechanics and kind of saying, Okay, well, how can I do things correctly. And that’s what I do spend a lot of time teaching my patients like, tighten your lower abs, right. So when you go to lift something, if you take your belly button, and you pull it in, trying to stand symmetric, don’t stand imbalanced, because that puts uneven weight through your body hold things close to your center of gravity don’t keep it out far, because that makes it worse.

And oh, cool. Things are basically not possible with the carseat. So that’s exactly right.

Some people use the car seat as a stroller. And in that vein, you know, we do you know, at Nestle, we’re working on solutions around this to help people transition the babies away from using car seats all the time, so that they’re not having to carry it, but it is definitely a problem. Yeah, no, absolutely. I think from a former baby carrier, right. And someone who had severe postpartum, I would say more anxiety than depression, but I’m sure it was a little bit of all of the things right.

I was afraid, right? Like I was afraid to use this one particular carrier, and you had to like wrap it and do it and tie it and knot it and move it and I’m like, Jesus, someone to drop the baby out of here, like, you know, Is this thing even on and you know, I almost had a meltdown at a barbecue. I very clearly remember my girlfriend’s Serena saw me like, there’s a million people at our house, they all want to meet Max. And I’m like, trying to put him in this carrier. And my face is like getting white. And I’m like, on the verge of tears because I’m sleep deprived, exhausted, with like a two week old and a house full of 50 people. And I like she saw me trying to put this rap on, and I had no idea what I was doing. And I just started bawling. Like standing in the middle of the yard. She’s like, come inside, it’s okay. To your point, right? Calm breeds calm. She’s like, give me the max. Let’s get this sorted. You know, and then I ended up buying like a different type of carrier and I spent $7,000 on carriers just figuring out one that I could like, put on that I wasn’t gonna draw them and you know, that was forward and rear facing and you know, as a parent, like, you’re like, What am I what am I doing? Like, I didn’t even know what I was doing. And I was such a lunatic at that time, because I just was like, I want to do all the things the right way. And I’m afraid I’m gonna do something wrong. And you know, you spoke to something when we first started like, first calm breeds call, right? I say that all the time to my clients, like calm breeds calm and you said it, like, take a breath. Everything’s okay. Right, but she saw me melting down. And like I could barely get this thing on, you know, Nestle, solve that. So I want to talk about it because I do truly love like the mission that you have this product because I don’t want to lug around a car seat. It is hard for someone like me, but it’s just hard for anybody on anybody’s back to be awkwardly like lugging this thing into the store out of the store into the cart. I was always afraid the cart was going to flip over and like what are we doing with this thing, you know, for such a little lady. This is quite a large apparatus. So babywearing I loved I did it, I went for small walks, they were able to get some fresh air a little bit of vitamin D, which is good. You know, within reason I’m not suntanning a newborn, but you know what I mean? They got to get the rhythms in check. And babywearing for me was awesome. I could like maneuver around the house and still know they were cool. We do some good cuddling. You know, so talk about nestle in that regard, because I know your idea set behind this was like we got to do this different and better because car seats aren’t working the way the carriers are today or you know, all right, but how can we do it different and better. So talk about the journey with Nestle and kind of how this came to be from your practice to, you know, prototyped now we have this amazing new product. Yeah, great, great question. So when I first decided like, this has to change, this is not okay. I started looking at who’s doing what and I started doing I’m doing some cool things. But outside of that there has not been that much. And I was kind of like you, I had first got to wrap because I thought they’re so pretty. You know, you look at the people wearing the rafts and they look so elegant and beautiful. And I was like Oh, I’m gonna do that I can rock that. I couldn’t rock it. Like it just did not work for me. But what I like about raps is how lightweight they are. And then you use like the big like, Baby cures all of them. I mean, Baby Bjorn Ergo baby, whatever it might be. They’re they’re great.

They’re fantastic in many ways, but they’re heavy. They’re bulky, they’re made out of fabric that I feel like is just unnecessarily big. And so when I said about doing this, I was like, I am going to make this the thinnest, lightest, easiest to use carrier that exists. And I was looking at it from the perspective of function, as well as comfort. I know that in order to easily transition a baby from one place to another, you need to make it lightweight, I wanted to be able to put the baby in the care in the sheath part of the carrier in a stroller so that they can sleep in the stroller. But then if your toddler is like, running in and wants to like get in the stroller, then you can just put the baby on your body and you’re not waking them up. So I wanted it super thin so that it could do this kind of transitional thing. So we actually went and prototyped with just canvas material just to figure it out. But then we ended up finding a really beautiful super lightweight fabric, think ski jackets, right, Patagonia. And the way that they revolutionized ski jackets is like jackets used to be super bulky. And then now they got thin, and then and then and you can still ski in this really lightweight jacket. And so it’s waterproof. It’s mainly exteriors made out of recycled water bottles, the interior is this really soft, wicking fabric, environmentally friendly, none of the, you know, like balades and unsafe materials. And so we basically decoupled the waist strap of the carrier from the body of the carrier. So now you’re worrying about putting your waist, strap it in and making it feel nice and snug and good on your body at the right place. And then you worry about putting the baby in the sheath. And that’s people like we can we can conceive of that you put the baby on the changing table, you know on this little sheath and you’ll buckle them in. And all you have to do then is lift it up and bring it close and click it into your body. The I use a magnet. It’s a magnetically guided click that it attaches magnetically. But once it’s attached, it’s like there, it takes over 120 pounds of force to remove it. I tried, I went we were prototyping. I put you know my niece who was like three years old in it, that I want my niece who was like six years old in it, I was trying to break it like I was trying to videotape myself breaking the buckle. Yeah. And then I put my niece who was 11 year old in it. And I still couldn’t break it I broke myself like I there’s no way I could carry that loving girl in the carrier, but you’re gonna need the SI joint.

But, but the carrier didn’t break. And so you know, I wanted it to feel like and really secure to that question of anxiety when you have a baby, right? It’s it’s like, Is this safe? Am I going to drop the baby is something going to happen. And so we built in these like, double triple safety mechanisms so that like when it clicks in, you hear this like, and you know, like it’s in, but also your shoulder straps are also attached to the sheet. So even if it came on buckled, you would still be carrying the baby. So it just helps relieve that stress and anxiety for moms. So again, it’s like just, you know, the as we were developing it each step of the way, I was like, alright, what makes this easy? What makes this hard? How can we make it easier and and this is where we came to the conclusion of like, let’s just kind of reconstruct this thing. And you don’t have to do this crazy thing where you’re lifting the baby up, waking them up, putting them into the carrier, you can just put the baby in the sheath with the waist strap on you. And then you just bring the two things together. Yeah, which I think is so easy, because every parent listening to this has done the ninja transfer at some point where they’re like, I still very clearly like I have a picture of my daughter when I successfully one time out of two kids and probably three years worth of some aspect of caring naps, right? I made a successful dismount one time, and it was at the beach. And it’s probably because it’s 1000 degrees, and they were like passed out. And I was able to like hunched over the couch, like D clip and then like back off, you know, and it was the first time ever that I did it successfully. Because normally it’s like, you know, they’re falling asleep cozy, and then you’re rustling around and try either to keep wearing them. Which is fine, but not always ideal. If I had to pee. I’m like, How do I do this? Like, how do I pee with you on my like, oh, I can’t do that, you know? So that dismount right and the ability to easily transition and transfer to like a hard flat surface if they’re sleeping and monitor right, like, cool. And it’s just practicality of it right? Like I think so many products come on the market lean and they function. They’re not practical. So it’s like, well, this works like 70% of the time but like then there’s still 30 of baggage I gotta carry around, you know, knowing that I’m using this product, but what are my alternatives so as a parent if there’s something that works

And as practical sign me up, right and reduces my anxiety, which is already through the roof, when I have a newborn with all the other things that I’m, you know, told to do and told not to do and, you know, friend shamed for it’s like, just doing my best and I don’t have a village. So, absolutely, and I think form should follow function. I don’t think that function follows form, right. So what do I mean by that is like, the form of the thing that is being produced should follow the function of the person who needs to use it. And it you know, our product should meet us where we are, we shouldn’t have to meet the product where it is. And, and so that’s kind of where I feel like, it’s like, we’re not letting parents be the guide. You know, we’re just kind of like, no, as parents, we’re just buying whatever we can buy, and then we buy so much, and then that’s wasteful and unnecessary. And so we just want to think about these things from a different perspective, not disturbing the baby. And, you know, how do you do it super easily so that it also doesn’t destroy your body, right? Look, bothers me about the thing about having to baby where, because your baby’s asleep, is that at some point, your back is going to start hurting, it doesn’t matter how good your carriers and I will say, like, if you were the Nestle baby carrier, all the time, your back is going to hurt because it’s just going to hurt if you have that pain, and you carry something for a long, long, long, long time. And so the idea is that, if you can easily put it down, and then put it back on, it’s still you know, supporting your spine, but done in a way that matches reality, which is like, I have to pee, or, you know, like I said, toddler wants to be in the stroller. And so I had to solve this problem. And so how can I do those things easily without hurting myself, and how I don’t have to like we already like, don’t sleep at night, we already aren’t eating as well as we are. And most of us are like trying to figure out maternity leave and this and that and, and you’re like going to work and coming home and feeling guilty and all this stuff. It’s like, we don’t need to add anything else to that pile of guilt, then, and it’s just more about like, How can I just do what I need right now and allow it to

just be there for me? Yeah, no, absolutely. And I know, you know, as somebody who was a baby, were right, sometimes it was cozy, comfy cuddle, like babies close kind of heart center, right. Other times, maybe we’d be on a walk, or I always had my kids in the spring. So it was like, the cherry trees were popping, and it was pretty, or my kids were kind of starting to look around the world and see things. And I wanted them to see forward. Right? So with an SL, it’s back and forward facing. Right. So you have options with situation day time, parents, you know, my husband was always like a forward facing guy, you know, with like the little arms hanging out. So he did look cute, both of them with a little chair on hand now, looking back, and like I remember those days.

But form and function, right, like so you have options with the Nestle right, that they can safely be kind of forward to you or forward out to the world. Yeah, and backpack wearing you know, or I don’t think like back wearing because I I think that

you know, sometimes as they get older that you know, getting putting them on your back actually is a little bit better for your body and it’s not pulling you forward. And so I love that one too, because then babies get to once they get older, of course, they can be on the back and they can see everything that’s going on. And they’re like, cool, and you’re also happy and not uncomfortable. So all of those, you know, are an option for Nestle.

And I love it. I was in Peru once in Cusco, and we were there in between kids, my husband, like if you’re going to Machu Picchu and you want to live in the jungle for a couple days, like Have at it. I’m not going and you can do it between one kid and the next. So my best friend and I went down to Cusco did Machu Picchu and we slept in the Amazon and like tree houses and stuff. I don’t know it’s not his seat. But anyway, we had a blast, but I was so enamored with the women who had babies just

tied up on their back. I mean, and I’m like, How are you doing that good for you, man. And I mean, they’re like doing their thing. And there’s either like a baby or a toddler on there. And it was like no big deal. Like, wow, I envy that because that was not me.

I do think back is just a different perspective to that. I don’t think people look at quite as much here in the States. Yeah, I definitely think that back wearing is a great way to solve some of these issues without you know, necessarily putting too much load on your body. Our backs are made for that. Like we actually can carry things on our back. So

It’s a good thing to look at. And I think physiologically, like forward like inward facing and back wearing are my best like favorite ones. I we allow Nestle to go outward because that’s what people want. And I remember when when my had one of my kids really liked to be outward facing.

So it’s there because people want it. But like from a what’s best for the body, you know, I would say front inward or back forward would be the ways to be healthiest. And I do agree actually took that a very similar trip, we did Machu Picchu, and we did the Amazon, but we did it with our kids. There were in elementary school. And,

and I remember that same thing, and it’s just really amazing and wonderful. And, you know, also, and this is something we talked about before is that in a lot of other more traditional settings, women have so many women around them, their mothers, their aunts, their grandmothers, their sisters, you know, kind of convening upon them when they have a baby to help them, learn all the wisdom and get all the knowledge. And it’s not something that you just kind of are left on your own doing. And I think that part of that is building this community that you’re doing and that so many people are trying to do.

And that’s like what Nestle is about, right. So we want to nestle the mom so she can nestle her baby. I love that. Because I’ll tell you, I didn’t have a village. Like I came home from the hospital. My husband was a controller at eBay at the time. And he’s like, it’s month end. I’m going back to work tomorrow. I’m like, Okay, peace. My mom was dead. And I had nobody else around and I’m like, Oh, all right. Well, what do we do here? What? What’s going on? Oh, you’re hungry again. Okay, let’s try to figure this out, you know, and I didn’t have a village. And I think that’s where like the idea for the kids sleep show. The idea for our sleep steps. membership program was to be the village to be the community that provides you education on sleep support on sleep, coaching through lactation, or how to use a baby carrier? Or is this postpartum anxiety are all the 9 million questions that parents have in an accessible and affordable way that doesn’t exist today. Right? It’s like you can buy the ebook, or course for a couple 100 bucks over here, or you can buy private coaching over here. But I’m like, people need the middle, right. And that’s where I saw asleep steps fitting, which is something we’ve been doing now for a couple months. And it’s so cool, because it’s it’s the first program of its kind that tries to create that village because I didn’t have one, which is the mission behind it. And every parent needs a good village, right, like, and I think to your point, like you had mentioned, even just descending upon you when you were in med school, right and doing your residency and like just the care and the wisdom is so powerful. Like I’d love you to tell that story because we were just chatting when we first started. So I didn’t have the opportunity to catch it. But I just think for new parents, like the overwhelm is real.

Yeah, and I was a, you know, new mom, I had my eldest, the day after medical school graduation,

no, like no gap. So residency starts like three weeks later. And because I wasn’t employed by one place or the other, I did not have maternity leave. So here I am brand new mom, entering intern year, the year

before the 80 hour work week was installed. So we were working routinely 8090 hours a week, and on call every three nights on call every four nights, you know where you’re at the hospital overnight. And my husband at the time was first working at a corporate law job. So he was also working all the time. And so I was like, Oh my gosh, what am I going to do like what I don’t have a nanny to, I literally have three weeks and my body barely has time to get better. And so my parents lived four hours away in Wisconsin. And I called them and I was like you guys come help. And God bless them. My mom and my dad came on the weekends. But my mom and my grandmother, who are Syrian, my family Syrian

came and they lived next door to me in the student housing they subleased from somebody who was away for the summer. And they sublease a small one bedroom and would come over every single day and take care of my son. And we would you know, they would help me like they were my grandma would wrap my belly and be like, This is what you need to do to recover. And she would make these special stews that pull in your you know, breast milk and my mom would take care of the baby and be like, Oh, you don’t know how to be them. No worries, I got this. I’ll show you how to do it. You know,

when my milk came in, and it was just like in gorgeous. I was like, Oh my gosh, I’m a doctor, right? So I should know. But it’s very different when you read it in the textbooks and when you see it and you experience it in real life. And so all of that like at the time I was kind of like Alright mom. All right.

Grandma, like, you’re fine like this is I’m okay. Like, I’m a modern woman, I can do this by myself. And then with time, I started to realize, ah, no, I can’t. And without this village, I don’t think I physically AM, I really don’t think I could have done it. And, and I realized, like, this is what we’re missing, you know, we got to create that space for people to have support, so that if your kid is sick, there’s somewhere you can go and you’re not stuck in overwhelm, or if you’re unsure, uncertain or unclear, there’s someone there giving you wise advice, and my mother in law, you know, was giving me advice, because I was carrying my baby and was kind of like, he was crying. And I was like, Oh, my gosh, oh, my gosh, like, I’m gonna, I’m gonna hurt him, or why is he crying is something wrong, and I was just kind of worried. And she was like, just take a deep breath, calm down. And when you’re calm, the baby will calm. And I just was like, that was like, my mantra then right is like, Just be calm. Because if I’m calm, the baby will be calm. And literally, like, every time I was worried I would do that baby would calm down. And that’s that importance of creating that environment around us. And not everyone has that and the way we live, it doesn’t really tend towards it. So we’ve got to create solutions for people to have that support that they otherwise will not get. Yeah. Now, I love it. And, you know, it’s such a strong mission for me personally, because I didn’t have the village, you know, and I think life is so fast, especially here, like we don’t get time off. You know, like, I had 12 weeks. That day, my kid went back to daycare, through the age of five, five days a week, eight to five every day was like Rock Paper, Scissors, who’s doing drop off Rock Paper, Scissors, who’s doing pickup, you know, and that’s how we managed it. And I so I didn’t know any different, you know, but I was not ready or prepared or healed in any capacity to like, go back to work and try to function and, you know, whether you’re working in the home, or whether you’re working like in a you know, kind of corporate or traditional setting, like, your body just seems like it doesn’t heal, and then you’re whisked off and sleep deprivation land to the world of work. And it’s like, you’re just trying to get by you now. And I’m like, That is not good mentally, for anybody, and now trying to try to do this. So yeah, and I think that it’s, um, it’s an interesting comment on our society in the system. And, and I think there’s two truths that can exist simultaneously. One is that our system is broken, like, it is not supportive for parents, it’s not supportive for families, it doesn’t work correctly. And it’s driven by financial gain, right? That’s the whole thing. And we don’t, we don’t attribute a financial value to family, parenting, all that kind of stuff. And so therefore, you get this imbalance, the system is broken. And you know, we can sit here all day long, and lament the system and say, Oh, my gosh, this system is broken.

I have to leave and move and live in Germany, or Australia, or whatever.

And that might be the case for some people. But for the vast majority of us, that’s not an option or realistic. And we can work on fixing the system, but in the same breath, we don’t want to give away our power. Right? And so that’s where we get to say, Okay, well, how am I going to take on what I can do for myself and become the best advocate for my family? And for my needs?

And for other women around me, right? How can I pay it forward to somebody else who’s got a problem, when I’m no longer in that situation. And so I think we can, while the system is broken, not just be like, railing against the man, and that doesn’t feel real positive. So we can just work on our own solutions to adapt

and fight the system. And I do think there’s a position that so many people do have, right, that can help with this, right? When I went back to work, I had a team of about 40, give or take at the time. And I probably had the best tenure in all of the entire marketing department was pretty large fortune 1000 company, right? And my team stayed with me. They had loyalty. They were treated with respect, right? And it’s not something like Rob Rago coordinate was just like, I treated others how I want it to be treated and they were like, I have a dentist appointment. I’m like, Okay, well just go to the dentist. You know what I mean? He’s like, Well, so do I in six months, so just go to the dentist, and that’s cool. Right? Like, I think there’s this aspect of that sometimes, especially in corporate which is where I’m from like, it’s very rigid. You know what I mean? And I’m like, No, go to your kids play. Yes. Hit the dentist. Okay. Yes, I know. Okay. Yeah. Don’t forget we have a

All Japan Tonight at eight o’clock, right, like, so it was always just balanced. Like we got a ton of work done. We met every deliverable if not before it was due. We were really good. We had great happiness and morale on the team. We were just I was talking on LinkedIn yesterday with someone about how like my team and I were like, Let’s start jogging at lunch. Like, they’d be good to get together, we all want to do like they tried to do like wellness initiatives that work. And I was like, what if we like kind of jogged or walked, you know, it wasn’t like, we were going 10 miles. But just as a team, we kind of did what everybody was capable. And we just like, ran down to the Desmond hotel and back. So it ended up being like a mile, but it was just like, we went out as a team and did it, we all changed, we were all sweaty and gross. And I’m like their boss and get out. I mean, and I was in it with them. And we just like, I think it does take just one person, and that one person can have an impact on even a small number. If everybody that had that voice used that voice. It can spiral, right? Because the culture is created, right? That’s exactly how culture is created. And I think that is part of the beauty. And I am seeing a shift. I feel like before the you know, in medicine, there would be like, the female doctors who are ahead of me are much older would say, Oh, well, I did this way. Therefore, you need to do it this way. And I think there’s a shift. And it’s like, well, yeah, I worked 8090 hours a week, you shouldn’t do that. And how can I help you do things better. And I think the more of us that are in that space that can hold that space. For other people, it’s not just women who are going to benefit men are going to benefit. And I think everyone benefits because when people are not burned out and stressed out, they bring the best version of themselves to work. And that best version is much more productive and helpful. So I think kind of the entire system can turn to the better. And like you’re saying the power of one is huge. So hopefully we can all be that one. Well, and we’re trying, you know, I’m seeing more of more of it every day, which is good. But I mean, I just think what you’re doing with Nestle is so cool. And I’m excited for all the projects that I know you can’t talk about yet. But we’re going to have you back on when you can to just share with like, the growth and opportunity that a product like Nestle brings in I’m excited this episode is going to be airing on the week, we’re doing a lot of fun stuff with you. So I’m excited for that. You know, but tell folks, where can they find this? Or how can they learn more about it. And in the shownotes I’ll be sure to link so I’ll be sure to link your Instagram. And for those of you catching it this week, you’re gonna want to hop over there because we’re doing some fun stuff. Yeah, fantastic. So you can reach us@nestle.com and ESL, and follow us on Instagram, Facebook, tick tock at Nestle baby. And any SSL Bab why. So it’s, yeah, we’ve got some good cat content on there. And we’re excited about our collaborations. And we’re really excited to help make things better for moms and dads, but and grandmas and grandpas all of them. The whole family. It’s easy, right? It’s definitely a unit. Well, I appreciate you coming on today. Thank you so much for sharing a little bit of love. And I agree we all need a village and hopefully we can make one for for every single person who’s going through this right now. Agreed. All right. Well, you have a great one. And thank you so very much. Thank you for joining.

Perfect, I’ll end there.

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