Episode 171: The Sleep Wave Method vs. Ferber Sleep Training: Which One Is Right for Your Family?

Disclaimer: Transcripts were generated automatically and may contain inaccuracies and errors.

Welcome to the kids sleep show, podcast where we dive into the magical world of sleep and all things parenting. Join us as we embark on a journey filled with expert advice, practical tips and heartwarming stories that will transform your little ones into sleep superheroes and empower you to navigate the beautiful chaos of parenting. I’m your host, Courtney Zenz, and I’m on a mission to change how the world views sleep and provide accessible sleep coaching resources for all families to build healthy sleep habits in their home for children and adults of all ages. As an award winning speaker, author and pediatric sleep expert, myself and my team of consultants work intimately with families around the world to teach healthy sleep habits to children and adults. I believe wholeheartedly that sleep is the foundation for which a happy home is built. So let’s sleep together.

Hey everyone. Welcome to this week’s episode of the Kids sleep Show podcast. I’m your host, Courtney Zenz, and I’m going to talk to you today all about an episode based on huge questions I get around sleep training methods. So today’s episode, we’re going to focus on the sleep wave method and the difference between that and Ferber based sleep training, or the Ferber method. So I want people to understand in this episode a little bit more about first selecting a sleep training program that makes sense for your family, it has to make sense for your family values, for your child’s temperament and also for parental comfort. A lot of people come to tiny transitions and they say, Well, I want to do a sleep training method that is either in the room or out of the room. And I’m like, well, that’s great that you want to do that, but that’s not what best aligns with your child’s age. That’s not what I’m seeing based on their response to us starting this where you’re going to have the best success, right, the minimal amount of crying. So I really want people to understand, you know, first and foremost, these two methods of sleep training, what the difference is, and then how you look at the overall picture of getting your child to nap independently, sleep through the night, and then avoid any aspect of infant sleep regressions. So let’s start with first and foremost, what is the sleep wave method? Now, I have been a pediatric sleep consultant for 10 years, actually 10 years coming up, this coming year, which is really exciting. And, you know, there’s a lot of different methods out there. The Sleep wave method was actually one that I was frankly not familiar with, till I started to see some things trend on social media about it. So I went out and, you know, kind of took a look at what that was. And it was created by two women, Heather Turgeon and Julie Wright, and they have a book, The Happy sleeper, which talks about gentle sleep training techniques for babies and involves interval based check ins. Okay? Now, what this book talks about right is responsive, soothing, right time based check ins and emotional support so you’re essentially slowly and gradually checking in on your child and doing it in a way that allows you to be more involved. Okay, so it talks about minimizing the stress on both parents and child. Okay, now what I have to kind of explain here, because I want people to have a full picture of what this looks like is shorter intervals. So for example, five minutes of crying and then you check in right now, five minutes of crying and then you check in again, right? So it’s shorter intervals with a calm and reassuring phrase, so like, it’s okay, buddy. Mommy loves you. It’s time to go Night. Night is really an example. Now, I’m not doing them total justice, I’m sure, in you know the book, but I’m trying to give you like, a brief synopsis of you know that method, so you can understand if this sounds like something that you might be interested in, you can explore. But I also want to explain some of the things I have found with these different types of methods, having been a certified sleep coach for the past 10 years now. So the sleep wake method essentially is shorter intervals and then using a reassuring phrase, okay, the cons of it are that it can take a bit longer. But you know what? Forward momentum is, still positive forward momentum. So that’s okay. You know when they talk about things like a gentler approach, minimal stress, less crying, like there is no way to teach a child to sleep through the night, to sleep train to settle independently if they’re deficient in the skill with minimal crying. I’m sorry. I’ve done this for 10 years. You can try to minimize the crying based on the approach the age in which you’re doing it, understanding their needs and truly dissecting whether it’s a deficiency in a skill or if it’s truly a need, in which case we need to feed them, we need to change their diaper, we need to get that burp up that visibly we can see might be trapped, right? So I think there’s an aspect to understanding too. When you’re sleep training, you have to look at both sides of the equation right now, the other side of.

The question I see a lot is like, hey, is this Ferber sleep training? So the Ferber method of sleep training was invented by Dr Richard Ferber. His is a gradual extinction, meaning his check ins grow as time grows right. So maybe the first check in is at 10 minutes and then 12 minutes right. And you could read his book to get through the whole program and process. But as and process, but essentially, it’s, it’s gradually growing the time frame in which you check in to help a child understand that they have the ability to self soothe. It is controlled crying, but you do have time based check ins. So with this, you do typically see a bit faster results, but you still see crying, right?

And it’s hard. Crying sucks. No parent comes to tiny transitions and goes, gosh, I can’t wait for my kid to cry, right? Like, that’s not why we’re doing this, but the chronic sleep deprivation, the inability to self soothe, the not sleeping through the night, the naps, like the chronic toll that sleep deprivation has on kids and adults. Is exhausting right now with Dr Ferber, it is this interval based check in, until a child settles, and then generally after that, you see gradual improvement every day with consistency and implementation. The key differences between a program like sleep wave and you know the Ferber methodology at a 20,000 foot view, they are interval based, check ins, okay? You will have sleep consultants mention their unique and proprietary method or approach. Okay, so what happens is, there’s four pillars to main sleep training, right? You’ve got independent settling or extinction, which is cried out. You’ve got interval based check ins. You’ve got presence in the room until they’re asleep. And then you have this pickup put down method, which really can only do in their newborns as you try to manage any crying at all. But understanding, you know how to work with a newborn. Okay? So those are the four pillars. So when you then start to, like, dissect them even further and go, Okay, sleep wave, Ferber, which way makes sense? You know, everybody’s going to have their sort of coined term on sleep training. So here at Tiny transitions, we have what are called Sleep steps. So it’s the way in which I’ve taken 10 years of experience and 1000s of kids and made sleep training as best you can. Okay, I can say with confidence, if done properly, night one of sleep shape training should take 40 minutes or less till your child settles independently, and then every night from there, you have a 50% improvement in how well they sleep. Okay, so with confidence, with experience, with understanding of how to educate parents on doing sleep training, I feel confident in the way tiny transitions explains understanding the child’s temperament, the parents goals, their age, their intake, all those different components that make up the jigsaw puzzle that is sleep training, okay, but key differences between something like sleep wave and Ferber really have to do with the consistency in which you’re checking in and the timing between check ins, if that makes sense, okay, parental involvement, pace and flexibility. I mean, that’s really what I call tear tolerance, because you have to be able to gage where your child is practicing the ability to settle independently. So I want to take you for a minute through how I explain to parents who work with tiny transitions what this looks like. And because we’re on a podcast, you can’t see me, obviously drawing this out, but I want you to think about something like a heart monitor, okay, and so it goes beep, and then it comes back down beep, and comes back down right? So like, if you were ever in the hospital and you looked up at the machine and it was on your heart, you would see the the ebb and flow of that machine, and hopefully, a very rhythmic pattern, okay, sleep training is like that. To have sleep training success, you have to first look at where the child is learning to practice. Think of it like a tool, right? Your child has two screwdrivers, right? Now, they have a flat head screwdriver and they have a Phillips head screwdriver, okay? Now, imagine they’re building a big deck out in their backyard, and you give them a flat head screwdriver. The problem is the deck screws are phillips head screws. It will absolutely work. That is a tool that will work on that screw. It’s not the most efficient tool. You see with sleep training, you have to help your child understand they have the best tool for the job, and then once they realize it, that job gets way easier. Okay, so what I kind of like to equate sleep training to is that they start with the flat head screwdriver, but by the end of our time together, they have the Phillips head screwdriver. It may even be on an electric drill at this point. So now you’re just going around like

you just built your whole deck in 20% of the time that it would have taken you with that flat head screwdriver that’s sleep for kids. They don’t want to wake they don’t want to have bad naps. They don’t want to feel gross all day because you’re.

Child typically feels like you do. They just can’t express it right. But when you give children the right tool and they understand the expectation to use it right, so the training actually happens pretty quickly. But if we’re too involved in the process and we’re constantly checking in what’s going on, how are you how can I help you? Actually can make it worse for your child. In an effort to make it better, right? You have to give your children a chance to practice during sleep training, right? So when I educate clients, I say, look like you’ve gotta do your first check in, maybe at five minutes. Acknowledgement, I’m here. I love you, and that’s assuming that they don’t want you in the room. Some kids will do good if you’re in the room, it depends on age and a bunch of other stuff that we work through together, based on your child, right? But if you’re doing interval check ins like fervor and sleep wave, I actually start with the first check in at five minutes, okay, then from there, I do consistent at 10 minutes, and I’ll tell you why. There’s a magic in the number 10, and it’s because your child has the ability to learn, which is why I say I can put a number on sleep training 40 minutes, okay, if it’s done right, and I’ve done this for a very long time. So when you do that first check in at five minutes, they’re going to get agitated. They’re going to get upset, but it’s acknowledgement. I hear you and I love you, but I’m not going to pick you up and like rock you to sleep or nurse you to sleep, or bouncy to sleep, or whatever it is that you want to sleep. Okay, however, what you end up then doing is, in that 10 minute period, remember, I was talking about the heart monitor, your child has to have it beep and then come back down. And the bottom part is where they practice. And if you’re constantly checking in at five minutes and you’re just like, oh my gosh, I don’t want them to cry, let me check let me check in. Oh my gosh, I don’t want them to cry. Let me check in. You’re poking the bear. They’re never getting down, because every time you go in, they get excited, and then when you leave, they get upset, but they never get to practice. That’s the part you’re missing. So if they don’t practice, they don’t know how to do it, and then they’re just hyper stimulated, they’re super upset, and you just keep poking the bear every five minutes. You’re never going to get them to sleep. And that’s where a lot of clients are, like, we tried this already. It took two hours, and they just screamed the whole time because you were probably checking in without ever giving them the ability to practice. Your children need the ability to practice, and that sounds like

sometimes it’s rhythmic rocking. Sometimes you’ll notice their head will be flopping back and forth. And it takes the first check in at five minutes, the first check in at 10 minutes, and then somewhere between that next check in and the following, you will see it. You will see the skill. You will see it rapidly develop. And you see your child put themselves to sleep independently. And then every time they wake in the night, you do the exact same thing, and with that consistency, in three to five days, your baby will sleep through the night. That’s sleep training in a nutshell. Okay, now there’s a lot of other components that go into it, which is why people hire us to help them through this. One, they want accountability. Two, their baby might have other stuff going on. If you have colic or reflux or a baby with a sensitive gag reflex, right? If you just are a little bit postpartum still, and you’re like, I just want somebody to talk to me while we’re doing this. Right? There’s a lot of reasons people hire us as their sleep consultants. Okay, anybody can Google sleep training methods. They’re online. But if you’re missing the schedule, if you’re missing the approach, if you’re missing the education, which is what we provide, if you’re missing the understanding of how to do this, you will fail. Every child has the ability to learn, to independently settle, but we have to look at intake. Are they getting the right amount naps? Is it the proper schedule hormone and balance of hormones right? Even at a young age, we don’t think about hormones, but that’s essentially what’s driving their melatonin, their cortisol, the adenosine, which is a neurotransmitter. There’s a lot of stuff going on that if you have the wrong ingredients, your sourdough bread will never rise. You might have put everything in there, but if you didn’t proof it and do the right steps, your bread is going to be a big rock, right? So you have to understand that there’s a recipe. You have to have all the ingredients. They have to be done in the right order, and you will have a beautiful sourdough loaf that I’m currently baking right now

in the oven, and that’s really what sleep training looks like, right? So how do you decide what sleep training method is best for your family? First talk to a consultant. Ask them how many families they’ve worked with. That should be the number one thing you ask someone, because I will tell you, sleep consultants today are a dime a dozen. You can train to be a certified sleep consultant for $200 in about six hours. Okay, ask that question, how many families at this age have you worked with? Right? And if you hear an um in that answer, they’re probably lying. So just understand that’s probably the first question I would ask. We might not be for everyone here at Tiny transitions. So when you’re trying to decide who you want to work with, make sure you understand that they have experience. Because every baby is different. You have to look at your child’s age, their personality and their unique sleep challenges. Okay, were they a NICU baby? Are you trying to work on them more as a newborn? Because you have to go back to work. What support systems and resources are available? How often do you get to talk to them on the phone? Because I can tell you a.

Whatsapp experience solely with a sleep coach, versus phone check ins and email support like these types of coaching are very different. I love talking to people on the phone because it makes it easier to explain what’s going on. Sometimes sleep consultants don’t even offer that, right? So you have to understand the support and the resources that are available and look at the success metrics. We have hundreds of reviews, read a sleep consultant reviews, if they have four reviews, like I would say, maybe schedule a call with someone else, honestly,

but encouragement to trust your instincts as well, like you have to

encourage each other in this process. Okay, if you have one parent that’s like, hey, no thanks, and the other parent who’s like, yeah, you sleep training. It’s never gonna work. You have to be in it as a team and trust your instincts to understand what’s going on, sharing with each other how you’re feeling and maybe saying like, hey, I need to tap out. You try this. I just worked with a 12 month old, and he would go to sleep independently and sleep through the night for grandma and dad, for mom, he woke 40 minutes after bed and multiple times, every single time, and it took us about a week and a half to get him doing everything beautifully. But it was boundaries, it was behavior. He knew how to sleep. He did it for dad and grandma every night, but whenever mom put him to bed, he was up multiple times, right? So you have to also understand, like, what’s going on, so that when you are sleep training, you’re doing the right thing. You cannot use interval based check ins on a 16 month old. It doesn’t work because it’s not sleep training. They know how to sleep. They’re choosing not to, because the reward is different, right? So you have to understand that the tailored approach to sleep training gets you to a faster success. Sometimes it might be further. Sometimes it might be the sleep weight method. Sometimes, you know, I don’t teach a specific method. I teach you how to sleep train your child based on their unique situation. I know how to do all of them because they’re all gradually associated with each other in some aspect. Honestly, there’s only four, as I talked about earlier in the episode. So if you’re on the market for a pediatric sleep coach, and you’re just trying to figure out, like, where do I start? Do I hire you as a newborn sleep coach? Do I wait until you’re an infant? You gotta do what works for your family? I would say a newborn is sleep shaking, right? We’re trying to teach you habits so you never have to sleep train in a way that it does involve minimal crying, if no crying at all honestly. But when you get to infancy, children generally have a habit that they’ve picked up, along with other things, sleep, regression, teething, all these different developmental leaves that happen. Right? They start standing in the crib, and you’re like, what are we doing with this? They’re not eating well, or maybe they only eat overnight and not during the day. There’s a lot that could be going on with each individual family. So there’s not definitely, like, not a one size fits all, kind of easy way to say things or to to do it for all families, you have to look at all your unique individual needs and select the program that’s right for you. My best tips for successful sleep training are be consistent and patient. You have a tiny human who might be hungry, who might have gas, who might have to fart or burp or whatever, set realistic expectations with yourself and make sure the environment is supportive where they’re sleeping, right? Calm, cool, dark, soothing, right? Setbacks are normal. Sleep regressions are normal. They shouldn’t last more than a week, okay? If they do, then you probably have created a habit versus a sleep regression, which, you know, sometimes the first time they roll or the first time they sit up, can cause a little blip in sleep, but it should not be something that is long term. Okay, I will tell you, there’s a lot of myths about sleep training, chronic sleep deprivation for your baby and for you, I would say, is absolutely harmful, more so than controlled crying during sleep training, I see no evidence that it causes long term trauma. There is no toxic crying. It is absolutely not something that’s going to break a bond with a parent and child. My son is tenant. Just this morning, when he woke up, he came in and he sat on my lap in my office. I’m up very early working, and we just cuddled for like, two minutes, and I yearn for those days. He’s 10 now, and, you know, he doesn’t necessarily want to, you know, want to do that anymore. I’ll tell you, both of my kids were sleep trained very early, and we have the best and most amazing relationship. We also sleep great. I can count on one hand how many times my kids have woken up overnight. And the beauty in that is that I actually know something’s wrong and I’m there to support them, and I can make sure that I am responsive as a parent, versus waking up going, Oh, what do you need tonight? Like, what is it? Right? There’s no one size fits all solution for sleep training. Okay, you have to research who you want to work with. You have to reflect on your own situation and what you’re doing, and seek professional advice from a sleep coach if it’s needed. Okay, I try to give a lot of information here and out on tiny transitions.com to my listeners, and I always want to make sure that you come to us to ask questions, that we’re there to support you, because that’s our goal and our mission in helping you build healthy sleep habits. So hopefully this.

Episode was educational. You can take a look at the sleep wave method or Ferber, if those feel right to you, you can reach out to us here at Tiny transitions, and know that we are always here to support you getting your best rest. All right, that takes care of this episode. Sweet dreams, and we’ll see you next time here on the kids sleep show. Podcast,

one more thing before you go. Thanks for tuning in to the kids sleep Show podcast. If you’re ready to take the next step toward peaceful nights and well rested days, we’d love to help whether you’re struggling with sleep challenges at bedtime, sleeping through the night, or short and broken naps, or you have a little one looking to create a better routine with them and for your family, we’re here to support you every step of the way. Head over to tiny transitions.com. And book a free call with one of our expert coaches. Let’s chat about your sleep goals and how we can transform your nights and your life. Don’t forget to subscribe to the podcast. Leave a review and share this episode with someone who could use better rest. Sweet dreams, and we’ll see you next time you.