Episode 17- Interview with Zenimal Founder, Anna MacSalka

Disclaimer: Transcripts were generated automatically and may contain inaccuracies and errors.

Welcome to the kids sleep show, where we help tired parents from around the world to get their children to fall asleep independently, sleep through the night and build healthy sleep habits for life. I’m your host, Courtney Zentz. Now let’s sleep together.
Hi, thanks,
everyone for tuning in to the kids sleep show. This
week,
I am excited to have a special guest here Miss anaemic selca, who is the founder of a company’s zoo animals that is now a very near and dear part of our daily bedtime routine. So I want to welcome Ana and we’re going to talk all about animals and what it is and how it can help your little ones with mindfulness, really, at any age. So welcome. And thank you so much for joining me today.
Oh, thanks. Thanks so much. That’s such a lovely introduction. I’m beyond excited to be here and can’t think of a better a better podcast to introduce him, we’ll do well, thank
you, I’m excited to have you and I want to learn all about. So let’s start with talking a little bit about really Where’s animal was born, how it came about, and where, you know, this sort of fell into the passion that you have now having some young children yourself. So let’s talk a little bit about the story of animal.
Sure. So um, zoomable kind of goes all the way back to me being a child myself. And I struggled immensely from anxiety around bedtime, nighttime, I started off kind of as night terrors that I wake up from, and then I started to dread that I would have them and then I just started dreading the sun going down, it just it compounded rather quickly, actually. And by the time I was nine, or 10. And, you know, friends were having sleep overs and going to summer camp and things like that, that was really not doable for me in any time, I was determined to try, you know, to sleep over at my best friend’s house, which it was like, Oh my gosh, she’s my best friend. And I know her. I know, her parents like this is going to be fine. And, you know, everyone would fall asleep. And then I would just that dreaded panic was set in and I you know, I, this is like, probably TMI, but like, I think I vomited on my best friend’s floor at one point, because I was just hyperventilating. so upset. That was like one of those, like, I still wins at that at that memory. But then I and so I just cancelled all plans, right? It’s like, I’m not doing that, again, that’s terrific. And so my parents, you know, did everything in their power every night when I when I would get upset. And they were really compassionate and as sweet. So I was really lucky in that respect. And they found a clinical psychologist in my hometown, Dr. Tina fleshman, who I think was kind of beyond her years. And she taught me mindfulness meditation, and controlling my breath, relaxing my body and going to this really cool visualization that I had a writing in my pony on the beach, and, you know, every detail was, was mapped out. And that took months of learning, it was several sessions of going in and having her Teach me and which, again, so lucky, because it completely reversed the course of my life, I was able to, to go to summer camp that same year, and, and, and feel confident sort of in my own skin. And brave again, which is I think, is a big deal for kids than when I met him many years later, in 2015, my husband and I welcomed my daughter into the world. And it was so wonderful. And, and we were so excited. And then I started to think like Oh, my, you know, what have we passed on to her? What are you doing go through all of those things in your head. And it was like the anxiety
portion of that I felt awful. And so I started to look around for tools, you know, and I found a lot of apps and YouTube videos, which again, like those are awesome. And I think that they’re great. And I applaud people for for bringing mindfulness into the world, making it so accessible. But it wasn’t really how I thought I would want my kids to unplug from the world, so much of the world is connected now. You know, especially going through this pandemic, we have no choice right to but to be connected through our screens, but the hours that kids are spending on screens, and we sort of look and see, you know, they haven’t drawn I will not claim that they’ve drawn specific correlation. But they’re the CDC released something, a statistic in 2017 that kids age 10 to 14, the second leading cause of death for that age group is suicide. And that number has increased 56% in the last 10 years. And you look and see so what has happened in the last 10 years and we see social media is booming. We see screentime in schools is booming. Everything these kids are doing. They’re living basically somebody else’s life through a screen. It’s not their own this their have very little self awareness, they have very little attention span because the content is never ending, you can literally 24 hours a day for I think it would take you a million years or something crazy to get through all of the content on the internet. And that is unbelievable, right. And it’s so it’s so cool. And I don’t want to be like, you know, the technology is evil, it’s that I’m just asking for a pause from it for a moment. And so when I came up with settable, it was important that it was screen free, it was important that it was portable, you know, a lot of the only still time that that you know, overscheduled kids have is in the car. It is a it’s a moment, you know whether or not they’re going to soccer practice or school or whatever it was, where they are sitting still. And so just to be able to, you know, plug your headphones in into your zamel, or just listen to it through the speaker, selecting one of the nine meditations and they vary in length from three to six minutes. And so it’s if it’s a, if it’s a five minute car ride to soccer, perfect. There, there’s your mindfulness for the day, if that’s all you’ve got. And, and again, just you know, I I love the apps, I think they’re cool. Sometimes I use them, because I there’s so there’s so much amazing mindfulness content on them. But when I turn on my phone to use them, I see that I have a text messages, I see that I have, you know, 74 emails waiting for me. And even if I push that aside, right, like, throughout my meditation, I’m thinking like, they wonder if that’s so and so writing me back about whatever, you know, and, and I’m not present, and I’m not in the moment. And, and that is hard. It’s hard for me because Because again, mindfulness is tough for most people. And it is it is really tough for me, my brain goes very quickly from one thing to another. And I’m thinking about 100 things, I think, especially as parents, like, we’re not only thinking about our own wellness and security and whatever, but also our children’s and our partners and our parents, whatever, whatever, it’s, it’s so much and so in the world is just a lot, especially right now, a lot, even if you don’t feel like it is we are not wired to live like this, we are not wired to be completely stimulated all the time. And they may show you know, excessive screen use excessive content, you know, consumption, it stimulates that sympathetic nervous system. And that that’s responsible for increasing heart rate increasing blood pressure, elevating cortisol levels, eventually down the road from from those two things. And then we just live in this in this heightened states of that sympathetic nervous system. That’s your fight or flight. Like that’s how extreme it is. That’s what our bodies thinks like we are being chased by a saber toothed Tiger like that’s what it interprets it as because we’re not we’re not we are just sort of based in this primal
body. And then when we don’t have the opportunities for the parents parasympathetic nervous system to take over. And that’s that’s what counteracts that sympathetic nervous system is that you just live in this heightened state. So your blood pressure is elevated, your your your hormones are all out of whack. And then, you know, for kids, this is no different this just because they seem more resilient. It’s exactly the same reaction they’re getting. And so we’re plugging them in for, you know, into screens or whatever, or allowing it and then turning it off, turning off the lights and saying, now go to sleep. That was this elevated, like they think they’re being chased by a woolly mammoth. Like, that’s what their body thinks. And this was not going to go to sleep, and it’s not going to sleep well, it’s going to kind of sleep with one eye open. And so so taking that opportunity, that meditation and mindfulness allows, you know, it’s and I’m not even, I’m not asking for a 45 minute session, you know, like, if all you can possibly wrap your head around in one day is three deep breaths, or you’re actually only doing those breaths, right? You’re not thinking about whatever else you’re not doing. That’s enough. Yeah, like, and that’s what I’m here to say. And that’s what I’m here to say with the product too, is even if you don’t like an animal, like I just want people I want to offer people that solution because it’s free. We’re doing it anyway, reading anyway. Why not just take three really great breaths and, and that’s sort of, you know, was my goal and and I do have big ambitions of hopefully changing a lot of lives with this. But when I first started, I said, if I change one kid’s life, that I’ve done my job if I if I make one kid not feel alone in this world, or feel like they’re different or not good enough, you know, giving them a little self acceptance, a little self compassion that I’ve been I’ve, I’ve done my work. Yeah, it’s and and i think that’s, that’s so much of what we need now. And especially so that’s that’s the long winded
No, no, I do Right. It’s great. And that’s where like, so I, you know, in the sleep space, right, like I teach clients to get the devices out of the bedrooms, I think I echo the increase in screen utilization. I mean, outside of right now is just a unique situation. But, you know, at any other period, aside from this, that we’re all in right now. I mean, like, there’s children that are, you know, on their tablets, at bedtime, they’re watching stories, they’re doing books, or they just get to watch one program. And it’s like that blue light is a stimulant, it’s a stimulant for you as a parent. And it’s a stimulant for kids. And that was my big thing is like, when I work with clients, I don’t allow devices in the room, like your, the device stays downstairs. And this is such a cool, which is why I kind of gravitated to it, it’s such a cool product, because there is no screen, you can keep it in your book bag, my son can keep he keeps it on his pillow, he sleeps in a full bed. And if at any point, he wants to get up in the middle of the night for being upset or having fear, he can turn it on. And the simplicity of the use is one of the things I love because it’s, it’s easy for him to just turn it on and hit a button. Like he doesn’t necessarily know which one he’s hitting, you know, but he doesn’t like they’re all good. So, you know, that’s what like I love you know, just to explain for folks that are kind of just tuning in and and trying to understand a little bit more about the zoo animal, it comes as a little turtle. And you know, and I’ll talk to you a little bit about the safety of it, which is great, also from a product quality standpoint, but I’m comfortable leaving it in my child’s room. And, you know, there’s different meditations like talk to me a little bit about the idea behind them, right. There’s warm feelings, empathy, gratitude, sleep, relaxation, creativity, breath and stillness. And I can tell you, from a personal standpoint, we’ve had our animal a little over a week now. And we’ve done sleep, gratitude, empathy, and breath. So we kind of gravitate to those four, we’re sort of just making our way around. But you know, my son’s like, I like this one, I like that one. And sometimes you just pick so but talk a little bit about kind of the motivation behind the different exercises you can do. And then I want to talk a little bit about the safety of the product, the quality of the product, because this is amazing. And it is no screen, there’s no blue light, there’s no stimulants in it, which I think you’ve already alluded to, from important standpoint. So let’s kind of start there, like dive into the, the different, you know, you said there’s nine different ones, right, talk a little bit about the creativity behind them.
Sure, yeah. So the nine we chose, were based on proven, proven categories that that focus that that give an all around wellness, to many human being right, but especially for children. And so the stillness, the stillness, meditation is actually one of my favorites is that it’s just getting grounded, right, it’s, it’s an excellent one for the morning. to, to feel connected in, you know, in your body, and in your mind. And this, this particular meditation, as animal kids is pretending that you’re, you’re a big, beautiful oak tree, and you’re rooted, you know, into the earth that that your branches reach out into the sky. And I think that is that has been really amazing, an amazing image for kids to feel strong to feel powerful, but to feel supported and safe. I love
that, and I’m sorry, I didn’t mean to interrupt, but I love at the end of them when you say like, you’re a good kid. Like, I just think like that part of it. I was like, yeah.
So that the story behind that is actually really amazing. Um, my dad who we lost, really suddenly, two years ago, that was something that he told us incessantly, for every second, I think from the moment we were born, he would just leave the room and be like, Don’t forget, you’re a good kid. Or even if you’re fighting, like we were just being, you know, gnarly, little, little kids or whatever. Like, don’t forget your kids. Like, it didn’t matter if we were if if we were quote unquote, not being good, we were still good. And so it’s that built this kind of self love in us that and acceptance, right? radical acceptance is something that I think all children are in need of that everything you do is good enough. You’re always good. And so that was that was sort of a legacy that I wanted to bring on in honor of my dad.
I love it. I’m totally going to steal that because like, when the first night I did it, I heard it. And I was like, Yes, like that was just the little part. I feel like my son needed because he’s struggling right now with this whole epidemic. Like he’s, he’s in kindergarten, and suddenly you’re thrust into this world of chaos, right? And so for him like he’s always been a rockstar sleeper has blamed my day job. We’re not allowed tablets. You’re going to bed we have a routine. We do it at the same time. There’s no crap, you know? Yeah, I give a little bit I’m not a psychopath, you know, on the summer wouldn’t have snores. And you can stay up till 830 call me crazy. You know, but I just I love the, the, you know, just the I don’t know, like trying to bring that grounding to someone at that is struggling I think with that self acceptance to your point and he’s like, What the heck’s going on? Right? Like, I can’t see my friends, everybody’s sick. So it’s just such a weird time that this has come at a perfect time to handle. I think the help with that, right, all of my friends are saying the same thing. Like kids are having nightmares and night terrors and the anxiety of all this, I think, as best as parents, we’re trying to manage it, like it sucks. Like, we’re all on edge, you know, trying to figure out how we work and teach and, and, you know, so it’s been, it’s been helpful there. And so I, I appreciated that part of it. So thank you. And, you know, we
do thank you for calling that out. That is, it is such an important part for me So, so appreciate that. It resonates and, and I get that from a lot of parents too. Like, it feels good. Like even when, until and that was the last words I ever uttered. To my dad was was after he said, You know, I left the hospital room. They said, Don’t forget, you’re a good kid. And I always say Don’t forget that you’re the best dad. And that was the last thing that I ever said. But I but I when I was 36 years old, and he was still saying it. And so I think even as adults, like it’s a good reminder, like you are good. It’s your birthright like you are always good. I do not care if you yell at people in traffic, I don’t care if you lose your temper with your children, whatever it is, like, you’re good. And that reminder and self hatred does some really awful things. It does not help the world at all. And you do when you don’t have self love. You are mostly I mean, maybe some people are different. I’m not if I don’t love myself, I have a really hard time loving other people. Yeah. No, I so that was that was that was important to me. And so going back to the to the nine, we have a breath, which is really simple. That’s our shortest meditation, just learning to deeply breathe and focus on your breath. It’s, it’s sure it’s an automatic response in the body. But when you can fully do it stimulates the vagus nerve and and relaxes the body which feels pretty nice. And then moving to creativity. This meditation allows kids to in their mind in their imagination and create a work of art using anything that they possibly want to clay or crayons or paints and they can make a mess and they can make it look however they want it to look without without kind of real life frustration, and that that element was put into this animal to to sort of stimulate focus, I guess, this is a great meditation to use before sitting down to do homework or something, you’re not quite psyched about it because it’s kind of a motivator. And getting the brain focused on a task that we found really, really helpful. There’s a body relaxation. So for this one, it’s a body skin it’s the passive tension Takashi unafraid exactly what it’s called. But where you tighten, tighten a muscle group and then relax it. And that that allows the body to to relax that body part. Moving on to sleep, which is obviously really my favorite. And that is and it is that is the inside note, that’s the best one to start with that I always recommend for parents. That is a time the only time that all children in some shape on some level are used to calming down during that time. So it’s a little bit of an easier introduction to ask them to sit still like oh my goodness, my five year old is the most squiggly little child I’m convinced on the planet. But nine times she’s able to sit still for the for the entire for the entire meditation versus a morning we still struggle with, with with sitting down with it, she just gets a little late. Right and that’s completely normal. And then I also I tell parents, you know, if they’re if a child is very, very resistant to trying it just just had the symbol playing while they’re brushing their teeth. Yeah, whatever, whatever just to get used to the idea because you may encounter resistance. I’m not I’m certainly not here to say like, it’s going to be perfect. They’re not going to move the muscle the entire time they’re going to do exactly the meditation. You know, it’s like this is the judgment has to go out the window and the expectations just have to go out the window because any little bit is is good. Well, we did.
We did warm for the other day because I wanted to try one in the daytime and we hadn’t yet. You know got through all of them. So we did warm and they were like you know, to your point running around, they’re four and six, you know, and I’m like, we’re going to Do this like, Oh, you know, we’re over playing baseball where I’m like, that’s like, I’m gonna sit and do this. And if you guys want to join me, that’s fine. And sure enough, like two little bodies sit crisscross applesauce, and, you know, start breathing with me. It’s also good, you know, so, um, and they’re gonna do it there. They were doing it with me. Yeah.
And that is something we definitely encourage it, especially the beginning is just sitting down and doing it as a family. Sort of the collective energy, we have found really, really helpful. And kids always look to parents for for action, you know, what are you doing? I want to do it like that. And, and so that’s how we’re designed. And so I think that that’s an excellent and it’s, it’s also one of those like, you know, I’m not asking you to, like get shots with your kids or, like, I was like, it’s not a big, it’s not a powerful thing, it will benefit will benefit parents as well. I hope and so that that is an excellent point. I
definitely had to warm but I know Yeah, gratitude still, there’s a couple.
Yeah, so yeah, gratitude is fantastic. Like, being grateful for the things that’s an awesome one to do before meals. And shows me whenever I do, whenever I consistently do gratitude, meditations with myself and with my kids. It is like, we are just a more joyful family. It’s incredible. I can’t even describe like the difference that it makes in everything and the compassion and and then leading into the next. Meditation, empathy is is another huge thing, putting yourself in someone else’s shoes. I had a really, really amazing story from a teacher who runs animal into her classroom. She’s a reading teacher. And so she has a smaller group of kids, it was second between six or eight. And they were having a tough day, they were just they were scrambling around the classroom. And they were kind of saying some not so nice things to each other, and a little bit of chaos. And so she’s like, yeah, everyone lay down on the floor doing meditation, she put on the empathy, one of the empathy tracking and one of the little girls started to cry. And, and after the meditation was was finished, went up to to this teacher and said, I’d like to take these two girls into the hall and apologize, I didn’t think how it would feel, you know, to receive those words. And when I realized, like, if somebody said those two words to me how horrible I would feel. And so building that building, that trait of empathy is, is massive. And like, that’s how we’re going to, you know, make incredible leaders, you know, you know, coming from this generation is, is that that empathetic response to to others I think is, is absolutely huge. And it feels good, right, like helping other people feels nice in a day. And then going up into feelings is that is the next one. I really enjoyed this one. Because again, like kids are, when I mentioned to you before, when we reached out or promotional video for cinema, when we first started, we put kids in front of a white screen and just asked questions about how different feelings feel in their bodies. And when we asked about being anxious or upset, like what that feels like, and they all wanted to go away from it in, or the go away from other people and deal with it. And that’s, you know, sort of how we, how we teach kids is to, once you go into your room and to come out when you’re happy because it’s it’s almost like I’m uncomfortable with you’re happy with you’re not happy feelings, I want you to leave and come back and when when you’re only fun to be around. And that’s not quite right. Right. Like we need to accept all feelings. And I’m not saying that, oh, we need to like say like sadness feels awesome. Because it doesn’t. But it’s it’s a it’s a fact of life. Like, you’re going to be sad, you’re going to be afraid you’re going to be happy you’re going yeah, we were human beings. And so I think this this sort of radical acceptance of all feelings, and that you’re not broken. You know, I was I was a kid that felt a lot of things and and I felt sad a lot and I felt afraid a lot and I felt broken because I felt those feelings a lot versus You know, there’s there’s this equation that suffering equals, sorry, pain equals pain equals suffering time to get it wrong. Pain equals suffering times.
Resistance. And so if you make the resistance zero, anything times zero is zero. And so you can still have the pain, it’s still there, but taking away that resistance and just accepting it, you’re not suffering from it anymore. And you can allow yourself to move through instead of just shoving it into a dark corner of their lives for all eternity. Right. And so that was that was a big a big reason that’s putting the feelings button on this animal and then the warmth. Like you mentioned, you tried to the other day is somebody is not feeling well or, you know, this, you know, skinned their knee or they have a cold It’s, it’s nice again to acknowledge like, I’m not feeling well like I’m going to send you know, without without being my to Frou Frou like fun send like a warm, imagine me imaginary light there and, and easing sort of that response in the nervous system to that pain and studies show with meditation, you know, chronic chronic pain is alleviated mildly with, with meditation as well as building up your immune system. So, you know, without sounding too snake oily about it, but it’s you know, and it’s not an overnight pill like I, I, I, I always want to say how amazing it is because it is amazing, but it is certainly not something you can do once it’s like working out basically, right, like you can’t work out once and be like, I have muscles for the rest of my life. And I live great to like, and I feel good, my blood pressure is low, it’s got to be a daily thing really as much as possible. And, and that’s why I always want to set the expectations low. Like, if they don’t make it through the whole meditation, that’s fine, you got tomorrow to do it again. And so just just making it a daily, a daily practice, you know, while also incorporating, you know, exercise and to as healthy of the diet as you can, as you can get kids to follow, it’s all a part of it’s all a part of the the wellness and, and so to tout my product as like the end all be all cure to all your problems like that is that’s a lie. But it’s a tool. And that is that’s what I always want to want to preach is is is the tool of mindfulness is is so essential, I think in all
and I liked it, it does turn off by itself, which is cool, because you know, you can, again at three in the morning, I don’t have to go in and like shut a turtle off if you know my self and one. Use it, you know, but it’s nice, because like a couple times he’s falling asleep doing it. And then there’s a couple times where we’ll just lay there, take some breaths, and then I get up and leave and he sort of shuffles about and falls asleep. But you know, we were talking a little bit about just the product quality because it’s lovely. Clean, like clear. As far as like how to use it. You know, it’s not challenging for a four or six year old to turn it on. But one of the things you know, I wanted to I know in my space, like a lot of parents worry about products harmfulness testing, like what is this thing that you know, they have? You know, so talk a little bit about that, because I know that you’ve done a lot of work on the safety side of things. So I’d love for parents to understand like, it’s safe to leave this with your children. And they’re okay, you know, yeah,
yeah, I am definitely one of those parents. Every I research every product I ever buy for my kids, and definitely have that speed jerk reaction to products made in China. And I was wrong. I was wrong on that. You know, I think there’s a there’s a big stigma stigma in that. And I talked to a lot of other people that manufactured other places. And, and I did, I did try to manufacture here in the US and found it a I was it was going to be a 700 public product. If I tried to do that. And it was almost impossible. The infrastructure is just not here. Also, the regulations actually are, are. They’re good, they’re fine. But it’s all it’s all up to a company really whether or not they decide to to get the certain certifications. And I found this amazing, I actually flew over to China twice. I interviewed several factories and engineers over there and source materials and found the factory that Carter’s uses for all their skip hop stuff. And that was that was a brand that I really respected for being for offering non toxic products for kids. I really, really liked that. And then I just researched the stink of every certification that was available for products and I said I’m doing them all I did 11 of them. Because I wanted I wanted to feel good about leading it my kids bed and the silicone shell is removable, and it’s FDA approved food grade you can eat off of it is safe. And then the device itself the internals are very safe. And we’re we’re lucky living in California prop 65 passed, which is really really strict on toxic materials, thankfully, right like I it was a it was a thorn in my side for a second but I’m grateful for it and it made me produce a better product. And it passes that with flying colors and the battery as well as pre certified ul as well as that you end up great purchase. All this is kind of geeky, geeky
time, though. I mean, there are kids, right? I guess your most important asset is your child so
completely, and I was so that that was that was a huge priority. And I also just didn’t want it to be a piece of junk that you throw away. In a month like I wanted it to be really durable and so the first prototypes we got I just gave to my kids and said like, try to destroy it. Try Yeah, I need you to try to make my daughter especially as incredibly good at destruction. She was like, she was sort of like my lab for that. And it’s so I am really proud of it and i i did work really, really hard for that and thankful to to the amazing engineers. Oh, you little Hi, you
cute little sweetheart.
We’re looking to win your helmet.
Oh,
I love
it.
This is sybella for everybody listening on the podcast my daughter just came in to say hi.
You look so amazing in your bike helmets. Were you outside riding your bike?
Depending on your hands, repeat your busy day.
You are very very busy. Well, you were so sweet. I’m so glad you’re here.
Do you like the turtle? She made the turtle? He did this the other night? You like do your deep breaths. Can you show me your deep breath?
She made the turtle. Alright, well, we’re not going to turn it on now because we’re talking about how about when it
comes down and let’s do this.
Probably come down in a few minutes. Alright, well, if you’re gonna sit, you got to be quiet. Okay? Because mommy’s mommy’s talking. Let me take your helmet off. And this part out?
Oh, it’s so great. So just where we’re at right now. All right now,
I’m gonna say it’s probably more than that. But um, yeah, this this is our show. She’s whore.
But, but yeah, so
perfect. Back to. Alright, back does animal. So tell tell folks a little bit about like, where can they find you? Where can they follow you your product? I mean, I found you on Instagram. So, you know, I’ll certainly give you the chance to tell folks a little bit about it and ordering and what that looks like and, and how they can get their hands on one.
Yeah, so um, so as animal only sells right now on our website, which is www dot zoo. animals.com. So it’s plural. And our Instagram feed is at the zoo animal. Facebook is also at the zoo animal and Twitter is also is that I’m not good with social. And so you can
throw it there. Yeah, in the notes as well. So folks can just click right to the site.
But yes, we sell on the website, there’s a lot of information on the website, we have a blog. With useful just sort of mindfulness tips and articles, we also have some studies that we talked about on the website, just touting the benefits of mindfulness. And then the product itself is is available there as
well. And I would love to see I’m sorry, on the given meditations. You had mentioned like Hey, gratitudes really good before meals, empathy, you know, like, do you kind of have a cheat sheet I could share too, with, with the listeners on Hey, try this. This one is a good one for this situation, like the classroom you were talking about? I think it’d be helpful for folks to kind of know which one to try. And when.
Yeah, so on the website, there’s there’s a section that’s why the why the nine categories, and that goes over each of the nine and when sort of the best clue to use those. So that that’s all there because that is helpful.
Yeah, I slept right to sleep. And then we’ve been trying the other ones, but, but that’s great.
Yeah, that’ll be very helpful. So
I’ll link all this in the show notes too. So
that’ll be good. I love it. I appreciate so much you coming on and talking all about this because I think mindfulness and meditation is something that we all could use a little bit of, I think right now especially, right.
And I think thank you for doing everything you do. Again, like being someone that that struggles, you know, has has struggled with sleep and still you know, struggles with sleep occasionally and, and having young kids like having a source to go to that that like like yourself in your podcast. And your and your Facebook group is huge. It’s a huge it’s a huge service that you’re providing and and it’s wonderful. So thank you so much for dedicating so much of your life and as a fellow Mom, I know that it takes a lot of energy and and patience and to do that well while raising a family and so I definitely applaud, applaud your amazing effort. And
I appreciate you coming on today. And certainly I’ll share all of this information with our listeners and send them your way because I think this product is awesome. So thank you very much. And I look forward to the new products that are coming down the line. I know you’re working on some if you want to. Certainly in the future, share any of those updates with us, we would be happy to have you.
I can’t wait. I absolutely can’t wait. Thank you so much.
Hold on. One more thing before you go. As a valued listener of the kids sleep show, I want to help you build a great sleeper not just in the times you’re listening to the show, but all day every day. Every week of the year. I have a new Facebook group called slumber Made Simple. It’s a place to gather with other parents looking for sleep support, laughs and the latest in sleep research, to build a family that is rested and at their best
day in and day out.
If you want to be part of the community where you can get free sleep support, weekly training sessions, unbelievable content and so much more. Head on over to tiny transitions.com forward slash community. That’s tiny transition stuff comm forward slash community or head over to Facebook and search slumber Made
Simple.
drop me a note and let me know when you join. I can’t
wait
to see you there.